Using full names for mainline Pokemon games and their related copyright tags

Posted under Tags

BUR #55381 has been rejected.

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create alias pokemon_rgby -> pokemon_red_green_blue_and_yellow
create alias pokemon_rgby_(prototype) -> pokemon_red_green_blue_and_yellow_(prototype)
create alias pokemon_gsc -> pokemon_gold_silver_and_crystal
create alias pokemon_gsc_(prototype) -> pokemon_gold_silver_and_crystal_(prototype)
create alias pokemon_rse -> pokemon_ruby_sapphire_and_emerald
create alias pokemon_rse_(prototype) -> pokemon_ruby_sapphire_and_emerald_(prototype)
create alias pokemon_frlg -> pokemon_firered_and_leafgreen
create alias pokemon_dppt -> pokemon_diamond_pearl_and_platinum
create alias pokemon_hgss -> pokemon_heartgold_and_soulsilver
create alias pokemon_bw -> pokemon_black_and_white
create alias pokemon_bw_(prototype) -> pokemon_black_and_white_(prototype)
create alias pokemon_bw2 -> pokemon_black_2_and_white_2
create alias pokemon_xy -> pokemon_x_and_y
create alias pokemon_xy_(prototype) -> pokemon_x_and_y_(prototype)
create alias pokemon_oras -> pokemon_omega_ruby_and_alpha_sapphire
create alias pokemon_sm -> pokemon_sun_and_moon
create alias pokemon_usum -> pokemon_ultra_sun_and_ultra_moon
create alias pokemon_swsh -> pokemon_sword_and_shield
create alias pokemon_bdsp -> pokemon_brilliant_diamond_and_shining_pearl
create alias pokemon_sv -> pokemon_scarlet_and_violet
create alias pokemon_ww -> pokemon_winds_and_waves

This might be a controversial thing to suggest, but I think we should be using the full game names as the main tag names for mainline Pokemon games (and their respective anime/prototype tags) instead of the shortened versions. With other copyrights, using shortened name as the main tag name is something that's only done as an exception in case the full name of the series would be really long, and this is not really the case with Pokemon games.
Try searching for Pokemon SWSH in Google for instance and you'll see that it appears as "Pokemon Sword and Shield" in just about every search result, same goes for other Pokemon games. I understand that it's often referred to as Pokemon SWSH by fans in discussions and such, but this is what we have utility aliases for, which are still going to redirect people to the right tag when they type pokemon_swsh, and to an outsider it might not be immediately clear what these shortened names refer to, which doesn't seem ideal for a copyright tag name that is being displayed in wikis, on the posts in tag lists, and so on. Even among Pokemon copyright tags, Pokemon mainline game and their related tags are the outliers in using shortened names instead of the full ones (aside from Pokemon TCG technically, but it should be well known what TCG stands for since it's far from being exclusive to Pokemon).

BUR #55383 has been rejected.

create alias pokemon_lgpe -> pokemon:_let's_go_pikachu_and_eevee!

Putting Pokemon LGPE separately also since there's been some concerns about the name length for this one. This name is shorter and closer to the current abbreviation but strays from the official somewhat.

Yeah plenty of other copyrights have very long and vorbose names. I've always found the pokemon names incredibly cryptic for no real reason, when those abbreviated names are perfectly fine as utility aliases.

I'm pretty meh on the concept, the fandom does use the abbreviations almost exclusively when discussing the games from my experience but as you said utility aliases would handle that, and it is more "correct" so I can see the point of view.

That being said I hate the "full" title for RGBY and all the lines with more than two games. There needs to be a comma in GSC and the like for it to be correct and make sense, also I really feel like gen I is awkward.

Updated by zetsubousensei

zetsubousensei said in forum #420406:

I'm pretty meh on the concept, the fandom does use the abbreviations almost exclusively when discussing the games from my experience but as you said utility aliases would handle that, and it is more "correct" so I can see the point of view.

Pokemon is hardly unique there, many titles are long enough that people usually just use part of it in converstation, with varying levels of crypticness. Random ones off the top of my head:

It's all about the context in which a term is used. Of course Pokemon fans are going to know what "Pokemon FAEJHEASD" means, but that doesn't make it any less cryptic. Half of the abbreviations I mentioned don't even make sense outside of a context where people already expect you to talk about it, so just using fandom usage as an argument for a general site like Danbooru isn't really applicable.

ANON_TOKYO said in forum #420415:

Pokemon is hardly unique there, many titles are long enough that people usually just use part of it in converstation, with varying levels of crypticness. Random ones off the top of my head:

It's all about the context in which a term is used. Of course Pokemon fans are going to know what "Pokemon FAEJHEASD" means, but that doesn't make it any less cryptic. Half of the abbreviations I mentioned don't even make sense outside of a context where people already expect you to talk about it, so just using fandom usage as an argument for a general site like Danbooru isn't really applicable.

Forgot to mention ZZZ as another but I agree with Zetsubou, for a long time on the 'net I've seen EN/(maybe) JP fans use the abbrivations of games, if I say "RBY" in contrast to Gen 1 games, people will know I mean "Red, Blue, Yellow"

zetsubousensei said in forum #420406:

That being said I hate the "full" title for RGBY and all the lines with more than two games. There needs to be a comma in GSC and the like for it to be correct and make sense, also I really feel like gen I is awkward.

I'm mixed on this BUR for that exact reason. For pairs, the full titles work perfectly fine as tags, even if some are a bit wordy. But for the earlier gens, where the enhanced version(s) are lumped in with the main tag, it just looks wrong without the commas. Same goes for LGPE.

nsmrtmr1 said in forum #420399:

Anime series based on their respective games. Doing them separately because I'm not sure if Pokemon RSE (anime) for example should include Emerald in the name since officially it's not.

This may be a bit pedantic, but the series with game-based tags do actually have offical English names. Some of the older series were only given their names retroactively, but they're consistently used by TPCi nowadays.

  • Pokémon the Series: Ruby & Sapphire
  • Pokémon the Series: Diamond & Pearl
  • Pokémon the Series: Black & White
  • Pokémon the Series: XY
  • Pokémon the Series: Sun & Moon

I have no idea if anyone would actually be in favor of using these titles for the tags, I just felt like it was something worth pointing out.

BKaz20 said in forum #420425:

I'm mixed on this BUR for that exact reason. For pairs, the full titles work perfectly fine as tags, even if some are a bit wordy. But for the earlier gens, where the enhanced version(s) are lumped in with the main tag, it just looks wrong without the commas. Same goes for LGPE.

This may be a bit pedantic, but the series with game-based tags do actually have offical English names. Some of the older series were only given their names retroactively, but they're consistently used by TPCi nowadays.

  • Pokémon the Series: Ruby & Sapphire
  • Pokémon the Series: Diamond & Pearl
  • Pokémon the Series: Black & White
  • Pokémon the Series: XY
  • Pokémon the Series: Sun & Moon

I have no idea if anyone would actually be in favor of using these titles for the tags, I just felt like it was something worth pointing out.

You can't use commas in Danbooru tags, so I can't do much about that specific point.

nsmrtmr1 said in forum #420399:

BUR #55382 has been rejected.

create alias pokemon_rse_(anime) -> pokemon_ruby_and_sapphire_(anime)
create alias pokemon_dppt_(anime) -> pokemon_diamond_and_pearl_(anime)
create alias pokemon_bw_(anime) -> pokemon_black_and_white_(anime)
create alias pokemon_sm_(anime) -> pokemon_sun_and_moon_(anime)

Anime series based on their respective games. Doing them separately because I'm not sure if Pokemon RSE (anime) for example should include Emerald in the name since officially it's not.

For RSE I personally would use "Pokemon The Series: Advanced" as it's the name used by both japanese and english seasons and tbh I never have seen someone use "Pokemon the Series: Ruby and Sapphire", so it would be

  • Pokémon the Series: Advanced Generation
  • Pokémon the Series: Diamond & Pearl
  • Pokémon the Series: Black & White (with a Pokémon the Series: Best Wishes alias if Needed)
  • Pokémon the Series: XY
  • Pokémon the Series: Sun & Moon

Updated by KoakumaBR

KoakumaBR said in forum #420495:

For RSE I personally would use "Pokemon The Series: Advanced" as it's the name used by both japanese and english seasons and tbh I never have seen someone use "Pokemon the Series: Ruby and Sapphire", so it would be

  • Pokémon the Series: Advanced Generation
  • Pokémon the Series: Diamond & Pearl
  • Pokémon the Series: Black & White (with a Pokémon the Series: Best Wishes alias if Needed)
  • Pokémon the Series: XY
  • Pokémon the Series: Sun & Moon

Like I said, some of these names were only given to their respective series retroactively. The series known as "Pocket Monsters Advanced Generation" in Japan never actually had an official English title back in the day. The individual seasons had names (Advanced, Advanced Challenge, Advanced Battle, Battle Frontier), but there wasn't a name specifically for the generation as a whole. Nowadays, every series has an official English name, and while some of them are basically never used by fans (no one calls Gen I "Pokémon the Series: The Beginning"), these are the names used for all official releases these days. Multiple streaming services (1, 2) refer to the Gen III anime as "Pokémon the Series: Ruby and Sapphire."

Once again, I don't know if anyone would actually be in favor of changing the tags to reflect this, and even I'm pretty indifferent to it. Still, if the game tags are going to be changed, something is going to need to be done about the anime. Whether it should use the English titles, the Japanese titles, or the game titles with "(anime)" as a qualifier, I honestly don't know.

Updated by BKaz20

BUR #55413 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create alias pokemon_rse_(anime) -> pokemon_the_series:_ruby_and_sapphire
create alias pokemon_dppt_(anime) -> pokemon_the_series:_diamond_and_pearl
create alias pokemon_bw_(anime) -> pokemon_the_series:_black_&_white
create alias pokemon_xy_(anime) -> pokemon_the_series:_xy
create alias pokemon_sm_(anime) -> pokemon_the_series:_sun_&_moon

Official English titles. As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm pretty indifferent toward this, but I decided to make a BUR in case anyone wants this. For what it's worth, we already use the English titles for Journeys and Horizons, so this does arguably make things more consistent.

BUR #55414 has been rejected.

create alias pokemon_rse_(anime) -> pokemon_advanced_generation
create alias pokemon_dppt_(anime) -> pokemon_diamond_&_pearl_(anime)
create alias pokemon_bw_(anime) -> pokemon_best_wishes!
create alias pokemon_sm_(anime) -> pokemon_sun_&_moon_(anime)

Japanese titles, albeit with "Pocket Monsters" swapped out for "Pokémon." XY isn't included, since the series is already called "Pocket Monsters XY" in Japan. I'm very much against this idea, as it's inconsistent with how the rest of the franchise is tagged, but I do tend to see these names used more among fans, even English-speaking ones.

BUR #55419 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create alias pokemon_lgpe -> pokemon:_let's_go_pikachu!_and_let's_go_eevee!

I don't have much of an opinion on this whole topic. I think that the tags are fine as they are, and that this change is unnecessary, but I also don't much care if they happen (unless the 11th gen games are called Pokémon Fish and Chips and Pokémon Bacon and Eggs, or some stupid shit).

However, if BURs do get approved, then the tag for these two games should be pokemon:_let's_go_pikachu!_and_let's_go_eevee!, not pokemon:_let's_go_pikachu_and_let's_go_eevee!.

Updated by AngryZapdos

Going to pipe up as a Pokemon outsider, and say that I always found the tag names needlessly cryptic due to using the abbreviations over the full name. It must work fine for the fanbase as otherwise the vote ratio wouldn't be as it is, but as an outsider it definitely helps me very little and always left me confused to see them abbreviated like that.

I should also point out that Touhou uses the same abbreviation schtick (Embodiment Of Scarlet Devil -> EoSD), but we use the title of the full names of games as tags. Pokemon is a very notable outlier in this regard. I feel like having the tags as their full names makes more sense personally, but eh, no skin off my back if this fails I guess.

BUR #55493 has been rejected.

remove alias pokemon_yellow -> pokemon_rgby
create implication pokemon_yellow -> pokemon_rgby

Like Pokemon Emerald and Platinum, Pokemon Yellow isn't just a Pokemon Red/Green/Blue v2, but a whole other storyline as the "game from anime" where you get Pikachu and both the three starters.

As the tags are being discussed as a whole, I believe that a parallel topic would be pointless

KoakumaBR said in forum #420806:

BUR #55493 has been rejected.

remove alias pokemon_yellow -> pokemon_rgby
create implication pokemon_yellow -> pokemon_rgby

Like Pokemon Emerald and Platinum, Pokemon Yellow isn't just a Pokemon Red/Green/Blue v2, but a whole other storyline as the "game from anime" where you get Pikachu and both the three starters.

As the tags are being discussed as a whole, I believe that a parallel topic would be pointless

No, no, you're suggesting a whole new tag for a separate game. This should be in its own topic.

BUR #55624 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

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create alias pokemon_rgby -> pokemon_red/green/blue/yellow
create alias pokemon_rgby_(prototype) -> pokemon_red/green/blue/yellow_(prototype)
create alias pokemon_gsc -> pokemon_gold/silver/crystal
create alias pokemon_gsc_(prototype) -> pokemon_gold/silver/crystal_(prototype)
create alias pokemon_rse -> pokemon_ruby/sapphire/emerald
create alias pokemon_rse_(prototype) -> pokemon_ruby/sapphire/emerald_(prototype)
create alias pokemon_frlg -> pokemon_firered_and_leafgreen
create alias pokemon_dppt -> pokemon_diamond/pearl/platinum
create alias pokemon_hgss -> pokemon_heartgold_and_soulsilver
create alias pokemon_bw -> pokemon_black_and_white
create alias pokemon_bw_(prototype) -> pokemon_black_and_white_(prototype)
create alias pokemon_bw2 -> pokemon_black_2_and_white_2
create alias pokemon_xy -> pokemon_x_and_y
create alias pokemon_xy_(prototype) -> pokemon_x_and_y_(prototype)
create alias pokemon_oras -> pokemon_omega_ruby_and_alpha_sapphire
create alias pokemon_sm -> pokemon_sun_and_moon
create alias pokemon_usum -> pokemon_ultra_sun_and_ultra_moon
create alias pokemon_swsh -> pokemon_sword_and_shield
create alias pokemon_bdsp -> pokemon_brilliant_diamond_and_shining_pearl
create alias pokemon_sv -> pokemon_scarlet_and_violet
create alias pokemon_ww -> pokemon_winds_and_waves

I'm surprised no one's suggested this until now, but since commas can't be used in tags, why not use slashes for the tags that cover more than two games? Like my previous BURs, I don't really have any strong feelings on this one way or the other, but this does seem like something that could work.

Better than the other, still meh on changing it in general, but I much prefer a division of names than "red green blue" and "yellow." If we use the full names I don't hate this.

Will be really interesting to see the outcome of this thread. As far as I know Pokemon tags are the only ones using the name of 3+ games in a single tag.

Updated by zetsubousensei

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