Posted under Tags
BUR #40446 has been rejected.
mass update copytags:0 -copyright_request -status:deleted -> copyright_request
these are untagged copyright posts (over 18k when I counted it today) that need to be tagged with *something* - tagging with copyright_request seems reasonable to get more eyes on them
Blank_User said:
- The copyright request tag is not supposed to be used for characters that are most likely original. Passing this BUR will dilute the tag and make it harder to use as intended.
I was under the impression that the request tag was ALSO for when you dont actually know if something is original or not, considering what it says on the upload wiki page (which says "Place a copyright_request if you cannot surely identify it", to be honest, if the copyright request wiki says you need to be SURE its actually from a copyright, that kind of defeats most of the point of the tag does it not? but thats a different discussion). Regardless, these posts still need to be tagged as original or *something* if they don't have a copyright tag. I would be curious if you had a better tag or solution to suggest here. Perhaps "check copyright" would be better? However, that tag only has 3k posts compared to the 86k of copyright request tag so idk if I love that tbh.
- This will also increase the work needed to garden these posts without making them more searchable. It is just as easy to find posts with 0 copytags as it is to find copyright request posts. But if this BUR passes, users will have to remember to remove copyright request afterwards, and there are plenty of users that don’t.
You're forgetting that regular members exist who can't search more than 2 tags at a time, so no this actually isn't easy for everyone to search. You're also forgetting that tagging with some sort of copyright tag (whether its original, or a metatag for it) is a minimal requirement for tagging posts on danbooru. I am looking for solutions here.
As for gardening --- these posts would need to be gardened ANYWAY, how is it creating more work? There 83k+ copyright request tags already, adding 18k is yes substantial but only makes it easier for actual members to search for it + still have another slot for one more tag. I don't really think your point makes sense the more I think about it.
edit: also, wdym users would have to remove the copyright request tag after? I am confused by this point, what does this have to do at all with the bur. like genuinely not trying to be snarky, am actually confused lol
- This will only update existing posts. New posts without copytags will still lack copyright request. You’d either need someone dedicated to adding the tag for all of the new 0 copytags posts or run the BUR periodically.
Just because it won't update new posts why does that mean we can't take care of the 18k posts in there now lol? I dont understand this logic, if we need to do it again at some point okay then make a new bur lol. I really hate the idea of "well just bc ppl are gonna keep mistagging in the future that means we shouldnt do anything about cleaning up the mistagged posts that already exist now!".
- Why are you excluding deleted posts? Those also need to be properly tagged.
If you actually look at the tags, you would very quickly find out why this point is so wrong lol. There is a shit ton of spam and general trash/troll posts in there, that really don't need to be tagged at ALL much less thrown in any other metatag. I think if we are going to be moving these into a tag that others are actively looking at/gardening, then we can do them the courtesy of not throwing in thousands of trash/troll posts no?
Updated by fairyboobles
BUR #40450 has been rejected.
mass update copytags:0 -copyright_request -status:deleted -> check_copyright
lets see how y'all feel about this one instead.
(I disagree with the above btw, esp after reading the wiki. But i heavily disagree that tagging these posts with something is creating more work or unnecessary to make them more searchable, esp once you consider that all posts require a copy tag or a metatag asking for copyright to begin with. Just trying to get gut checks here)
edit: lol, also check copyright implies copyright request which I didn't realize but doesnt change my vote regardless
either way I would love a better solution here
Updated by fairyboobles
fairyboobles said:
Blank_User said:
I was under the impression that the request tag was ALSO for when you dont actually know if something is original or not, considering what it says on the upload wiki page (which says "Place a copyright_request if you cannot surely identify it", to be honest, if the copyright request wiki says you need to be SURE its actually from a copyright, that kind of defeats most of the point of the tag does it not? but thats a different discussion). Regardless, these posts still need to be tagged as original or *something* if they don't have a copyright tag. I would be curious if you had a better tag or solution to suggest here. Perhaps "check copyright" would be better? However, that tag only has 3k posts compared to the 86k of copyright request tag so idk if I love that tbh.
That’s even worse. If you add check copyright to those posts, you’d still be adding copyright request. Now users will have to remove two tags instead of one. Furthermore, check copyright is only to be used after a copyright has been identified. It should not be put on posts with 0 copytags.
Edit: I see you addressed this as I was typing this.
You're forgetting that regular members exist who can't search more than 2 tags at a time, so no, its not easy to search actually. You're also forgetting that tagging with some sort of copyright tag (whether its original, or a metatag for it) is a minimal requirement for tagging posts on danbooru. I am looking for solutions here.
As for gardening --- these posts would need to be gardened ANYWAY, how is it creating more work? There 83k+ copyright request tags already, adding 18k is yes substantial but only makes it easier for actual members to search for it + still have another slot for one more tag. I don't really think your point makes sense the more I think about it.
Both copytags:0 and copyright_request are single-tag searches. Basic members can add one more tag no matter which one they choose.
Yes, the posts do need copytags, but tagging them all with copyright request won’t actually make them easier to find. Users can simply search for copytags:0 to find these posts. The extra work comes from users needing to remove the request tags after they have been fulfilled, and as I already explained, it is very easy to forget to remove those tags.
Just because it won't update new posts why does that mean we can't take care of the 18k posts in there now lol? I dont understand this logic, if we need to do it again at some point okay then make a new bur lol. I really hate the idea of "well just bc ppl are gonna keep mistagging in the future that means we shouldnt do anything about cleaning up the mistagged posts that already exist now!".
No, what I’m saying is that this BUR would cause more problems than it would solve. We can’t just throw BURs at everything; some things need to be done manually. And this BUR will do nothing to make gardening easier.
If you actually look at the tags, you would very quickly find out why this point is so wrong lol. There is a shit ton of spam and general trash/troll posts in there, that really don't need to be tagged at ALL much less thrown in any other metatag. I think if we are going to be moving these into a tag that others are actively looking at/gardening, then we can do them the courtesy of not throwing in thousands of trash/troll posts no?
Yes, I am aware of those posts, and they are still subject to the same tagging requirements as other posts. Deleted posts are hidden by default anyway, so coming across those will only be an issue for those that have their account set up to show deleted posts.
fairyboobles said:
BUR #40446 has been rejected.
mass update copytags:0 -copyright_request -status:deleted -> copyright_request
these are untagged copyright posts (over 18k when I counted it today) that need to be tagged with *something* - tagging with copyright_request seems reasonable to get more eyes on them
Deleted posts should get copyright requests too.
Bionicman76 said:
Deleted posts should get copyright requests too.
Do we really need a copyright request for post #9207465?
shemingwan_wen said:
Do we really need a copyright request for post #9207465?
usually when gardening i exclude off-topic (or more specifically off-topic status:deleted) from my search to avoid that kinda shit
Updated by Ylimegirl
BUR #40453 has been approved by @nonamethanks.
mass update copytags:0 -copyright_request -off-topic -> copyright_request
Okay, here's another (more serious) try, how do you feel about this one?
Ylimegirl said:
usually when gardening i exclude off-topic (or more specifically off-topic status:deleted) from my search to avoid that kinda shit
According to the wiki, original would be a better fit for post #9207465, though it would be nice if there were a separate tag for posts like that.
Alternatively, it’s probably fine to not put a copytags on these. We make exceptions for artist tag requirements with official art, so I don’t think having exceptions for other categories is out of the question.
I do agree with the fact that this BUR is a temporary bandaid at best, but truly, I think most things past a certain page on copyright request sort of end up dying in the same way that anything past page 2 of a Google search does-- people who regularly garden the tag clearly don't know what it is, and people who don't aren't going to care. If anyone is gardening past page 10 or so of copyright request (and I think this is a generous estimate), they're probably doing it with a narrowed search, trying to catch a more niche copyright.
I personally didn't know about copytags:0 before this, but so I don't really see the harm in adding 18k posts or so into a tag that's already has 83k posts, especially when it's as difficult to garden as copyright request is. It'd at least help consolidate posts that should've been tagged with copyright request in the first place.
schule said:
I personally didn't know about copytags:0 before this, but so I don't really see the harm in adding 18k posts or so into a tag that's already has 83k posts, especially when it's as difficult to garden as copyright request is. It'd at least help consolidate posts that should've been tagged with copyright request in the first place.
Every once in a while, I see a post tagged copyright request or character request when the copyrights and/or characters are properly tagged. The copytags and chartags are usually added by a user other than the uploader (which is expected), but they then forget to remove the request tags. In some cases, the other user might also not be sure, but sometimes the characters and copyrights are easily recognizable, or at least easy to research.
Adding copyright request to all of those posts would increase the number of mistags because users are still going to forget to remove it when it is no longer needed. If the goal is to ensure all posts have at least one copytag, then gardening copytags:0 will work just as well without potentially leaving a mess behind.
Blank_User said:
Every once in a while, I see a post tagged copyright request or character request when the copyrights and/or characters are properly tagged. The copytags and chartags are usually added by a user other than the uploader (which is expected), but they then forget to remove the request tags. In some cases, the other user might also not be sure, but sometimes the characters and copyrights are easily recognizable, or at least easy to research.
Adding copyright request to all of those posts would increase the number of mistags because users are still going to forget to remove it when it is no longer needed. If the goal is to ensure all posts have at least one copytag, then gardening copytags:0 will work just as well without potentially leaving a mess behind.
How would my bur add copyright_request to posts that are already tagged with copyright_request? especially when I already filter out copyright request tags. I am confused - what am I missing?
I feel like the argument is essentially "we dont need to actually have a copy tag at all, not even copyright_request" - I'm pretty confused why you keep making the argument that this will create more work when it will all require the same amount of work anyways.
For regular members, they can search copytags:0 BUT it will be USELESS if you dont also -copyright_request THIS IS WHY I added it to the BUR - did you see that part? This frees up a slot for members. Also - nobody actually knows about copytags:0, I don't think its fair to say its just as searchable when 1. its not without getting rid of both slots of a blue members tag search and 2. its not actually accessible because ppl dont know about it
Im advocating for making it easier to garden these tags, not harder. Idk why ppl forgetting to remove the copyright request tags means that we shouldn't still make usage of the tag for exactly situations like this?
fairyboobles said:
How would my bur add copyright_request to posts that are already tagged with copyright_request? especially when I already filter out copyright request tags. I am confused - what am I missing?
I mean the ones you’re proposing we update in the BUR. The ones that don’t have copyright request or any copytags. The paragraph before that was about the ones that do have them to show the downsides of the tag and how putting them on all of the 0-copytag posts would exacerbate those downsides for only marginal benefit at best.
fairyboobles said:
For regular members, they can search copytags:0 BUT it will be USELESS if you dont also -copyright_request THIS IS WHY I added it to the BUR - did you see that part? This frees up a slot for members. Also - nobody actually knows about copytags:0, I don't think its fair to say its just as searchable when 1. its not without getting rid of both slots of a blue members tag search and 2. its not actually accessible because ppl dont know about it
I don't see why blue members can't just choose one or the other to garden at a time. That's how I did it for my first month - lots of workarounds. Arguably the fact that they might have to disclude check copyright eats up another search slot, but nobody's arguing that to be deimplicated from copyright request.
Starting to think I'm the only user who actually ever looked at the search cheatsheet in full, which points out the meta tags tagcount, gentags, arttags, chartags, copytags, and metatags.
Im advocating for making it easier to garden these tags, not harder. Idk why ppl forgetting to remove the copyright request tags means that we shouldn't still make usage of the tag for exactly situations like this?
Mostly just means there's some gardening to do in copyright_request -check_copyright copytags:1.., I guess.
At the end of the day this BUR mostly just feels pointless.
fairyboobles said:
I feel like the argument is essentially "we dont need to actually have a copy tag at all, not even copyright_request" - I'm pretty confused why you keep making the argument that this will create more work when it will all require the same amount of work anyways.
For regular members, they can search copytags:0 BUT it will be USELESS if you dont also -copyright_request THIS IS WHY I added it to the BUR - did you see that part? This frees up a slot for members. Also - nobody actually knows about copytags:0, I don't think its fair to say its just as searchable when 1. its not without getting rid of both slots of a blue members tag search and 2. its not actually accessible because ppl dont know about it
Im advocating for making it easier to garden these tags, not harder. Idk why ppl forgetting to remove the copyright request tags means that we shouldn't still make usage of the tag for exactly situations like this?
First of all, why would you need -copyright_request to filter those out? If your goal is to add copytags to posts that don’t have them, copytags:0 by itself is a more direct search for these posts. Why would they need to include copyright request in their search at all?
I’m also not sure why you believe removing a tag in addition to adding a tag would not be any extra work than just adding a tag. It’s also extra work for gardeners because they may find a post tagged copyright request that already has the correct copytag and have to take time to figure out whether the tag is there because of actual uncertainty or because the user that tagged the copyright forgot to remove it.
The copytags:0 might not be something the average user (as in those that mostly just browse) would know about, but users that are invested in helping out with actively gardening should be familiar enough with the site to go to the More page and read help:cheatsheet. There are still things I don’t fully understand about the site, but I know where to look them up if I need to. We should expect a little more from users that regularly garden posts.
Updated by Blank User
Blank_User said:
Every once in a while, I see a post tagged copyright request or character request when the copyrights and/or characters are properly tagged. The copytags and chartags are usually added by a user other than the uploader (which is expected), but they then forget to remove the request tags. In some cases, the other user might also not be sure, but sometimes the characters and copyrights are easily recognizable, or at least easy to research.
Adding copyright request to all of those posts would increase the number of mistags because users are still going to forget to remove it when it is no longer needed. If the goal is to ensure all posts have at least one copytag, then gardening copytags:0 will work just as well without potentially leaving a mess behind.
This might just be a case of a fundamental disagreement, because I'd personally rather a post be tagged with a copyright and/or character and copyright request not being properly removed than a post sitting without any copytags and no copyright request. I've no qualms with gardening copyright request (it's what I primarily did when I first started, and I still try to do it now), but it feels a bit redundant to separately search copyright request and copytags:0 when you garden them the exact same way.
schule said:
This might just be a case of a fundamental disagreement, because I'd personally rather a post be tagged with a copyright and/or character and copyright request not being properly removed than a post sitting without any copytags and no copyright request. I've no qualms with gardening copyright request (it's what I primarily did when I first started, and I still try to do it now), but it feels a bit redundant to separately search copyright request and copytags:0 when you garden them the exact same way.
I am glad you understand my thought process here; I feel similarly. I thought it would be a net positive to clean up posts with no copy tags as those really shouldnt exist in the first place, hence the bur
