Just gonna say that making a holding_* tag for each and every object isn't the right way to go at it, just holding + the tag for the thing being held is enough in many cases or umbrella tags should be used like holding food.
Posted under Tags
Just gonna say that making a holding_* tag for each and every object isn't the right way to go at it, just holding + the tag for the thing being held is enough in many cases or umbrella tags should be used like holding food.
iridescent_slime said:
We're up to over 400 holding_* tags as of now, and there's no end in sight. At this point I'm not sure if anyone's even searching for these tags or if we're just creating them for completeness.
I could be wrong, but don't we have some sort of system to see which tags are used and which aren't?
For what it's worth, I for one use some of these "holding" tags.
On the other hand, it seems reasonable that many holding tags aren't used in practice. I'm not sure how many people are interested in, say, posts where someone is holding a spoon. (tag holding_spoon)
Unbreakable said:
Just gonna say that making a holding_* tag for each and every object isn't the right way to go at it, just holding + the tag for the thing being held is enough in many cases or umbrella tags should be used like holding food.
I'm not sure holding + the tag for the thing being held is enough for many cases.
Example: post #3551791 contains someone holding a sword (holding_sword), but also others objects are there:
However, I agree about the umbrella tags... holding_food, holding_instrument, etc. work for me. It goes without saying that at the very least, we don't need "holding" tags for each food or instrument.
We're not actually up to over 400 of these tags, though, because a lot of the things in holding_* are like holding_hands or holding_breath
Things like holding flower are useless for finding pictures of what is captured by holding flower (which I would imagine is one of the more commonly used holding_x tags) but having a tag like "holding rose" (doesn't exist) would be pointless.
Oh, and I've used holding spoon before now.
I still think stuff at the top of page 3 should go ahead, but the only additional things that I would add to the list is to merge holding sock/holding socks/holding thighhigh, and to add holding mace, holding club and holding halberd to the holding weapon grouping.
This is always going to be a combination that will end up with a large number of different tags, but I don't see any reason why this would be inherently problematic - the tags are straightforward both for someone wishing to tag them or for someone wishing to look for them. It's not "extra stuff to remember" in either case.
BUR #2056 has been rejected.
create alias holding_sock -> holding_legwear
create alias holding_socks -> holding_legwear
Reason: skylightcrystal's idea in the message above.
It goes without saying that this would be in line with various other "legwear" aliases that already exist. Like how red_legwear covers all of this: red_thighhighs, red_kneehighs, red_leggings, red_socks, and red_pantyhose.
In theory we could have the whole package and alias holding_pantyhose, holding_kneehighs, etc. -> holding_legwear, but they aren't used at the moment.
holding_thighhigh had only 2 posts, so I moved them to holding_legwear manually without requesting an alias at this time.
EDIT: This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.
EDIT: The bulk update request #2056 (forum #158249) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.
Updated by DanbooruBot
skylightcrystal said:
add holding mace, holding club and holding halberd to the holding weapon grouping.
I think we don't need those 3 tags. Those weapons seem well covered already by the searches below.
For comparison, searching for "holding" doesn't change much in this case.
Danielx21 said:
I'm not sure holding + the tag for the thing being held is enough for many cases.
Example: post #3551791 contains someone holding a sword (holding_sword), but also others objects are there:
- bag = so that post appears as a false result in a search for holding + bag... that's why we have holding_bag
- cellphone = same thing, we have holding_phone
- notebook = same thing, we have holding_notebook (which is poorly populated at the moment)
By the way, if holding_sword were deleted today, you'd still be able to find the above post with holding_weapon sword without having to resort to holding sword. Characters holding swords are so common that holding_sword is more than justified, though.
iridescent_slime said:
- We have holding_bag but not tags like holding_satchel or holding_grocery_bag. The umbrella tag here works fine.
- The same goes for holding_phone. This is an umbrella tag that eliminates the need for tags like holding_cellphone or holding_corded_phone. I don't know why we even have a holding_cellphone tag; it's just taking up space.
- The reason holding_notebook is "poorly populated" is because most of us have always just used holding_book notebook despite the problematic book implication. Holding_notebook is less than a year old and was never really necessary in the first place.
By the way, if holding_sword were deleted today, you'd still be able to find the above post with holding_weapon sword without having to resort to holding sword. Characters holding swords are so common that holding_sword is more than justified, though.
I believe we agree at least about the umbrella tags like holding_bag and holding_phone. It's true that we don't need tags like holding_satchel or holding_grocery_bag.
I previously suggested un-implying and then aliasing holding_cellphone -> holding_phone, but unfortunately that was automatically rejected after 60 days (forum #150101 / forum #150112). I still think we don't need holding_cellphone, as you said.
However the case with "notebook" seems problematic to me. I'd rather always use "holding" tags that are consistent with the normal tags. I'd prefer keeping holding_notebook completely separate from holding_book.
At least that's one option that works in my opinion. There may be other options... Maybe not holding_stationery because it would encompass too many things, but something along those lines.
At some point in the past, it was noted that holding_pen was often used for characters holding either a pen or a stylus. So I took the time to populate holding_stylus when needed and making sure that holding_pen is not about a stylus (topic #15006).
Nowadays, these two tags are available with their implications:
Danielx21 said:
I think we don't need those 3 tags. Those weapons seem well covered already by the searches below.
- holding_weapon mace (140 posts)
- holding_weapon club (169 posts)
- holding_weapon halberd (161 posts)
That's exactly what I'm saying.
skylightcrystal said:
That's exactly what I'm saying.
Oh, that's alright then.
I manually emptied holding_mace, holding_club and holding_halberd now, and deleted their wikis.
Danielx21 said:
I'm not sure holding + the tag for the thing being held is enough for many cases.
Which is why I said a couple of umbrella tags or for commonly held things are fine, tags like holding weapon, holding food, holding bag, holding flower and so on are fine, tags like holding microwave for example I don't really see the point in.
On a related note, should holding a briefcase and/or suitcase be tagged with holding bag? They technically aren't bags but having separate holding tags for them, which we do, also sounds unnecessary.
Unbreakable said:
Which is why I said a couple of umbrella tags or for commonly held things are fine, tags like holding weapon, holding food, holding bag, holding flower and so on are fine, tags like holding microwave for example I don't really see the point in.
On a related note, should holding a briefcase and/or suitcase be tagged with holding bag? They technically aren't bags but having separate holding tags for them, which we do, also sounds unnecessary.
I see. My opinion is this:
Depending on the umbrella tags available, I'd rather keep holding_microwave, holding_briefcase, and holding_suitcase.
I prefer using holding_bag only for actual bags, which can accurately use the tags holding and bag in all cases.
There may be other options of umbrella tags available:
I realize holding_microwave has only 1 post. Somehow it seems weird to have that tag for only 1 post. If we had dozens of posts where people are holding microwaves, I would think holding_microwave is a good enough tag.
The bulk update request #2055 (forum #158212) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.
The bulk update request #2056 (forum #158249) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.
I heard it's possible to approve a BUR even after it was rejected because 60 days passed.
Can this be approved?
The purpose is getting rid of holding_cellphone, because this tag seems excessive. We already have separate holding_phone and cellphone tags.
The bulk update request #1789 (forum #150101) has been approved by @evazion.
The bulk update request #1790 (forum #150112) has been approved by @evazion.