Kamiina Botan Anime vs Manga Design

BUR #58109 is pending approval.

mass update favgroup:54485 -> kamiina_botan_(old_design)
create implication kamiina_botan_(old_design) -> kamiina_botan

Kamiina Botan's character design on the covers of the manga has blonde/light brown hair. In contrast, her hair in the anime is decidedly pink. post #11208423 and post #5460074 are good official examples of her manga design, and post #10140615 is the official anime design (post #11168182 and post #11184824 are other good examples). post #11176109 is a reference to the change in design. The anime design is much more popular (117/137 posts right now) than the manga design (20/137 posts) and the anime version will swamp the manga design more and more as time goes on since the anime is far more popular.

I think these are sufficiently visually distinct to warrant having a way to easily search for the manga version. Obviously, searching by hair colour alone doesn't work since there are other characters with pink and blonde hair.

Damian is going to say that we should use official alternate hair color to avoid creating character tags. I don't think that official alternate hair color is a good fit here, since both versions are equally official. Neither is a variant or an alternate. There is an old official design, and a new official design.

Edit: I should add that I'm open to suggested alternatives to *_(old_design), e.g. _(manga_design) or just _(manga). I went with _(old_design) since there are more precedents (*_(old_design)).

I find it hard to believe that anyone would agree to making an "old design" tag for a character that is solely focused on their hair color. Not even their hair design, which would at least be further distinguishable, hair color. I think the alternate, and in turn official alternate, tags are based on what is the predominant default design, which would be in Danbooru's case her anime design, which would make the manga version, no matter how equal to the anime version, the alternate.

Being an alternate doesn't make it less legitimate, and arbitrarily making a clause that it doesn't count in this situation just to make a tag solely focused on her hair color feels silly.

I don't see it as "just a change of hair colour." The character designers sat down and made a conscious choice to change the existing character design in a visually striking way. Her hair is a huge part of her character design. Her hair is waist length and it's got two side up and hair intakes, it's a bit part of what you see when you look at her. post #5460069 and post #10234947 barely even look like the same character.

official alternate hair color also is just a meh tag in general, on top of being an uneasy fit in this case. No regular user is going to think to use it, whereas they will actually notice chartags. It gets messed up by posts with many characters in them. Chartags are vastly more intuitive and give more accurate searches.

BUR #58112 is pending approval.

mass update favgroup:54487 -> gujou_kanade_(old_design)
create implication gujou_kanade_(old_design) -> gujou_kanade

Throwing this one in there too for good measure, from the same copyright. Her hair goes from black on the manga cover (post #10349522) to purple in the anime (post #10140622) and she also loses her hair intakes. Nowhere near as many posts to cover since she's not the protagonist.

This shouldn't be approved until after topic #35686 has been decided as I will need to edit it depending on how/if her chartag changes.

Calling the manga version "old design" comes off as pretty insulting to the author especially when post #11208405 you want to tag as such is the cover of volume 8 that hasn't even been published yet.

If you need separate tags, calling it "manga design" would be better. That's frankly similar to what I've seen with figures where the anime version may differ from the original, where some are labeled as like "animation version."

Name aside, I'm just not really sure how I feel about making chartags for such design chances. It's not too uncommon in the first place. Sure, this one does seem like a more prominent change, but I feel like it will just cause headaches in the future (Takamatsu Tomori's ever-changing hair color comes to mind), while for the most part you can just find these posts by searching chartag+hair color tag.

What, are we also going to make a tag for Green Kaiba next? Surely this is something that can be searched as a two-tagger kamiina_botan -pink_hair or kamiina_botan brown_hair.

Ylimegirl said in forum #434598:

What, are we also going to make a tag for Green Kaiba next? Surely this is something that can be searched as a two-tagger kamiina_botan -pink_hair or kamiina_botan brown_hair.

Did you look at those searches? Most of the first one is greyscale. A quarter of the second one is anime Botan, but someone else in the image has brown hair, and it misses all the ones where the manga version is tagged as blonde (favgroup:54485 blonde_hair). Tagging of colours is notoriously unreliable.

ANON_TOKYO said in forum #434596:

Name aside, I'm just not really sure how I feel about making chartags for such design chances. It's not too uncommon in the first place. Sure, this one does seem like a more prominent change, but I feel like it will just cause headaches in the future (Takamatsu Tomori's ever-changing hair color comes to mind), while for the most part you can just find these posts by searching chartag+hair color tag.

I think about Hirose Koichi, and how his manga hair design (blonde hair, once spiky becoming a Son Gohan reference) was changed for the anime (grey hair). JoJo in general would suddenly be viable for tons of recolor tags like this if this were accepted, because of Araki's own varied color choices and the anime following suit with its own varied choices.

Ylimegirl said in forum #434598:

What, are we also going to make a tag for Green Kaiba next?

That at least has a copyright tag to find them (and I tagged some posts missing the copyright yesterday). Some of those posts currently aren't tagged green hair, of course. Rather than a Green Kaiba tag, I'd rather just have a tag for his original white outfit which also appeared in the manga.

Gentags are miserable for distinguishing official designs. If the design differences only extend to two characters then character subtags are probably fine. For other copyrights (e.g. Maoyuu post #2143640) there should really be (manga) sub-copyright tags.

BUR #58452 is pending approval.

mass update favgroup:54485 -> kamiina_botan_(manga_design)
create implication kamiina_botan_(manga_design) -> kamiina_botan
mass update favgroup:54487 -> gujyo_kanade_(manga_design)
create implication gujyo_kanade_(manga_design) -> gujyo_kanade

GreyOmega said in forum #434579:

Calling the manga version "old design" comes off as pretty insulting to the author especially when post #11208405 you want to tag as such is the cover of volume 8 that hasn't even been published yet.

If you need separate tags, calling it "manga design" would be better. That's frankly similar to what I've seen with figures where the anime version may differ from the original, where some are labeled as like "animation version."

"Insulting" is a bit ridiculous, especially since if you take a glance at the author's twitter you'll see he is a very big fan of pink-haired Botan. He's also been very actively involved throughout the production of the anime.

That said, I've been thinking about this, and I agree it's a bit inaccurate to call it "old design" when it's still the current design in new volumes of the manga. "Manga design" would be more accurate, so here's a version of the BUR with your suggestion.

Spatula22 said in forum #434712:

Gentags are miserable for distinguishing official designs.

+1.
If someone can give me a two tag (or even three tag) search that gives the same result as favgroup:54485, then feel free to suggest it, but character + hair colour is utterly useless. official alternate hair color would be the only way, but I dislike that tag for the reasons above.

Hmm, reminds me of forum #410092, which ended up expiring without much discussion. I think it makes sense to have these tags, though in that BUR's case the anime tag was probably too much.

The anime tag was created to be able to find versions where it appeared along with other designs, but maybe we should have a general tag for multiple adaptations of the same character appearing in the same picture? dual persona is too broad, not sure if we already have such a tag.