Photo_(medium) discussion

Situation: searching for human photos is hard

Searching for photo_(medium) yields mostly photography of illustrations, which is fair enough

Preliminarily trying to conjure a search for cosplay photo_(medium) would still yield illustrations due to the very literal presence of cosplay in a photo

Then realizing there is a tag for traditional media in this case we could arrange the search cosplay photo_(medium) -traditional_media which finally would yield something closer to the desired results.

However aside from exceeding the 2 tag limit search by subtraction is fairly gnarly for users, not even necessarily because it requires them to know the '-' operator but because it is considerably harder to search for what is not a desirable find than to put in the field what they want in particular, it also requires a posteriori knowledge of what the search would yield otherwise.

Another issue is a very interpretative notion of what makes photography the medium, occasionally an image with a photo in the corner or in a mere panel may also get the tag photo_(medium) and that would mean our hypothetical user still finds things like post #4330769 even with their 3 tag search.

Proposals

• Not tagging photo_(medium) in images with a small photo in the same way post #4168743 is not tagged screencap
• ~making photo_(medium) a meta tag in the same way scan is (?)
• a straightforward way to search for actual people not as in george w. bush tag but people in the flesh: A modeling tag?... but It's already in use

On another matter I have to point out that after some browsing I think some artists employ rather advantageously other people's photos. In the case the photo is more appealing to the public (proof comment #2054867) than the illustration but ironically it wouldn't be on danbooru without the side-by-side illustration. see bokuman order:score for what I mean.

ljhkhjkghjybtvhyt said:

Situation: searching for human photos is hard

Searching for photo_(medium) yields mostly photography of illustrations, which is fair enough

Preliminarily trying to conjure a search for cosplay photo_(medium) would still yield illustrations due to the very literal presence of cosplay in a photo

Then realizing there is a tag for traditional media in this case we could arrange the search cosplay photo_(medium) -traditional_media which finally would yield something closer to the desired results.

However aside from exceeding the 2 tag limit search by subtraction is fairly gnarly for users, not even necessarily because it requires them to know the '-' operator but because it is considerably harder to search for what is not a desirable find than to put in the field what they want in particular, it also requires a posteriori knowledge of what the search would yield otherwise.

Another issue is a very interpretative notion of what makes photography the medium, occasionally an image with a photo in the corner or in a mere panel may also get the tag photo_(medium) and that would mean our hypothetical user still finds things like post #4330769 even with their 3 tag search.

Proposals

• Not tagging photo_(medium) in images with a small photo in the same way post #4168743 is not tagged screencap
• ~making photo_(medium) a meta tag in the same way scan is (?)
• a straightforward way to search for actual people not as in george w. bush tag but people in the flesh: A modeling tag?... but It's already in use

off-topic status:deleted photo_(medium) -no_humans

Or for non off-topic stuff:
photo_(medium) cosplay -traditional_media -reference_photo_inset -no_humans (for cosplays)
photo_(medium) real_life (for non cosplays)

Anyway... the more pertinent issue is that photos are generally not... encouraged to be uploaded. Danbooru "is primarily for original anime-style or anime-related artwork," in other words. So most photos are kinda off-topic unless it's related to artwork in some way. Like, say, photos of artwork and reference photos used for (uploaded) artwork.

Photos of people cosplaying specific characters (unlike say, generic meido cosplay) aren't off-topic, but they might be perceived as borderline (and hence risk not being approved). Regardless, uploading piles of cosplay pictures (of the same cosplayer in similar poses and background) will probably also rankle a few feathers.

Photos of some real-life people connected to "original anime-style or anime-related artwork" may also be allowed under certain circumstances (basically if they 'represent' said copyright in some fashion, and are frequently drawn as a 'character' for such related copyrights), such as, say, Zun (zun photo_(medium)) and Yagoo (yagoo photo_(medium)), but trying to upload massive piles of such real-life photos (even of people who already have photographs uploaded and approved here) will probably be considered off-topic and swiftly deleted.

Otherwise, well... photos of real-life people will generally be considered off-topic, because they aren't anime-related. You'd probably have better luck looking on other boorus dedicated to 'real-life'photos, such as on Behoimi (AKA 3Dbooru).

I suppose cosplay of fictional "anime-style or anime-related artwork" characters are on-topic, and we do host a considerable number of such photos, and perhaps a dedicated tag for that might help people find those. But then again if somebody wants to look up cosplays, a dedicated booru like Behoimi is probably a better idea anyway. Boorus deidicated to 3D content will have tags and other features to make it easier to look for, well, 3D content, because that's what they are specced for.

Overall, I'm ambivalent on this matter (the proposal to crate a new tag specifically for real-life people in the flesh). Though... maybe we could use the real life copyright tag more 'aggressively' for this? If a post contains a photo of a real-life person, 'mandate' tagging it real life even if the person is cosplaying a character from a specific copyright? Currently posts with photos of real-life people don't (usually) get the real life tag if they are "in-character".

...Though, I'm not sure whether this approach will cause issues for people who are currently relying on the real life tag. Anyone has any opinions on this, or can shed some insight?

Of course, photography of a model is generally discouraged however that in itself is not a sufficient reason to have the tags be dysfunctional and intricate. Just as screencap are frowned across the board yet It's effortless to search for them. Specially with something as concrete and graspable as photos, while moderation and searching are different matters: were someone to frenetically upload them they'd still be not approved/flagged. That being said taking into account forum #187339 It is logical in a rather humorous manner that the tags are kept intricate to ease work.

NNescio said:

Though... maybe we could use the real life copyright tag more 'aggressively' for this? If a post contains a photo of a real-life person, 'mandate' tagging it real life even if the person is cosplaying a character from a specific copyright? Currently posts with photos of real-life people don't (usually) get the real life tag if they are "in-character".

IMO its fine to tag any real human being as real_life whether they're a known figure or not, and whether they're cosplaying or not. There's already not-famous cosplayers (post #3770779, post #4375029), models (post #4467262), cats (post #4245620), and even this artist's hand/desk (post #2101925) tagged as real_life. In theory if anyone cared enough to give a random model a chartag they would clearly fall under the real_life "copyright".

If real people were tagged as NNescio suggested it would mean that real_life photo_(medium) would basically provide what ljhk is looking for (with only a few false positives: photos of drawings of famous people), if someone is willing to do the tagging work.

TO-DO

• Move images that merely feature a small photograph from photo_(medium) to photo_inset (done up to page 50)

post #4168743 is not screencap; post #4549097 shouldn't be photo_(medium)

• Clean up the confusing arrangement of underused tags:
• photo-referenced
• reference_photo
• reference_photo_inset

• This is pedantically technical but I have to point out that we use photo_(medium) for real life video, though it makes sense in the practice.

ljhkhjkghjybtvhyt said:

TO-DO

• Move images that merely feature a small photograph from photo_(medium) to photo_inset (done up to page 50)

post #4168743 is not screencap; post #4549097 shouldn't be photo_(medium)

Wait, are you removing photo_(medium) from all the posts that had a photo inset in them? I don't think that's the best way to go. People are used to being able to search photo_(medium) to see all posts that have any photo component, and now they'll have to search ~photo_(medium) ~photo_inset, which they won't think to do. It's not intuitive. Really, photo_inset should imply photo_(medium) if anything. Then you can filter out photo_inset to get the results you want, but the behaviour of photo_(medium) stays the same as before for everyone else.

I agree, I think those posts should still have the photo (medium) tag.

ljhkhjkghjybtvhyt said:

TO-DO

• Move images that merely feature a small photograph from photo_(medium) to photo_inset (done up to page 50)

post #4168743 is not screencap; post #4549097 shouldn't be photo_(medium)

CormacM said:

Wait, are you removing photo_(medium) from all the posts that had a photo inset in them? I don't think that's the best way to go. People are used to being able to search photo_(medium) to see all posts that have any photo component, and now they'll have to search photo_(medium) photo_inset, which they won't think to do. It's not intuitive. Really, photo_inset should imply photo_(medium) if anything. Then you can filter out photo_inset to get the results you want, but the behaviour of photo_(medium) stays the same as before for everyone else.

nonamethanks said:

I agree, I think those posts should still have the photo (medium) tag.

Agreed. Doesn't matter how small the photos are (unless they are small enough to be indiscernible), if it the post has an actual photo in it, it should be tagged with photo_medium. Unilaterally removing them will screw with other people's search practices.

ljhkhjkghjybtvhyt said:

• Clean up the confusing arrangement of underused tags:
• photo-referenced
• reference_photo
• reference_photo_inset

• This is pedantically technical but I have to point out that we use photo_(medium) for real life video, though it makes sense in the practice.

I'm not sure how you are going to proceed with this, but again, please try to avoid making 'sweeping' unilateral changes that might affect other people's search preferences.

--

Anyhow, think the best way to handle this moving forward is to:
1. Aggressively tag garden posts with actual real-life persons in them to add the real_life 'copyright'. Do so even when the persons are "in-character" as another character (cosplay, usually).
2. Leave the other tags alone for now.

This will allow a simple real_life photo_(medium) 2-tag search to do what ljhkhjkghjybtvhyt wants, as noted by CormacM. This should be adequate for most purposes. Perhaps a further real_life photo_(medium) -no_humans 3-tag search, to exclude photos of objects without humans.

There may be a small number of false positives (again, noted by CormacM) but this can be excluded somewhat with -traditional_media. If someone doesn't want to see photo_inset or photo-reference or reference_photo or reference_photo_inset or cosplay or gunpla or... whatever, they can exclude those with further 'negated' search tags. Yes, this might need a lot of tags to perform, but this is a consequence of an intuitive search system: if something counts as a 'tag' then it should be tagged such, and if there's a specific (type of) example that you don't want to see... well you have to exclude that in your search. And if you have a lot of things that you don't want to see... welp, guess you have to manually exclude all those tags then. Otherwise this will screw with other people's uses of those tags and lead to a less intuitive system (again, as noted by CormacM).

Also, as I have noted earlier, if one doesn't want to deal with all the 'noise' of drawn art getting into the way (and if one desires search tags that cater specifically to sorting real-life pictures), perhaps using a Booru dedicated to real-life photos might be a better option. Behoimi is the one I mentioned earlier.

Anyhow... this does leave the question of who's going to do the tag gardening (for adding real_life) though. I don't particularly care about this issue (being able to search for real-life photos of real-life people), so I'm not going to volunteer. Perhaps ljhkhjkghjybtvhyt should do it? Or get people with similar interests to help?

Edit: 'Softened' wording on suggestion at end. Sounded too brusque without the question marks.

I have rolled back the photo_(medium) tag removal since the feedback has been clear and it isn't my intention to disrupt the searches of users. However I don't agree with either the concept or naming of photo_(medium) at all: in post #4549097 photography isn't clearly the medium nor I assume anybody say at first glance is a work of photography. It's one of those instances where description by extension does not result in something ideal for users: It is hard for me to picture a user wanting to find post #3177147 or post #312791 when they have in mind searching for photos.

The tag system is intuitive and correct yet with this tag in particular it does not look geared towards the interests of the searcher. Let me explain this way: how useful would the forehead tag be if what ensured its use were its mere presence? Also relative tags may not be objective science to implement but I think they are useful: having a rape tag even though such act is only subjectively apparent to the viewer by reading the scene is better than searching for ~fellatio ~sex scared.

For now I think the real_life suggestion is helpful and I will take the time to garden it since it's only natural as I am the one who started this topic. It's just that without subtracting photo_inset It's hard for the basic user to get photography still.