Danbooru

Utility of certain FGO Swimsuit umbrella tags?

Posted under Tags

Somewhat related to my previous ramblings in the forums, see also topic #31512.

So some swimsuit servants have a pretty distinct through-line for all their ascensions, like Mordred (Swimsuit Rider). She's wearing the red bikini in all of them, them all sharing a common umbrella tag makes some amount of sense. But what about... say, Anne Bonny (Swimsuit Archer) & Mary Read (Swimsuit Archer)? All three of their ascensions feature distinct outfits. I think we should do what we did for Koyanskaya's confusing ascensions between Assassin and Foreigner and just imply the individual ascensions directly to the base tag in cases like these. There isn't any meaningful difference in depiction between regular Anne and bikini Anne aside from which swimsuit she's wearing. If people want to search for all ascensions at once, they can still just use Anne_Bonny_(Swimsuit_Archer)*(fate). Going to submit BURs for these as I encounter them on my quest of "uploading all the damn saint graphs", unless people universally hate the idea and then I'll stop. i think these should all be related enough/cut-and-dry enough to not warrant individual discussion threads like the other messy umbrella tags, but if im wrong im wrong and an admin can bonk me on the head and ill split the discussions up

BUR #39987 is pending approval.

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remove implication anne_bonny_(swimsuit_archer)_(first_ascension)_(fate) -> anne_bonny_(swimsuit_archer)_(fate)
create implication anne_bonny_(swimsuit_archer)_(first_ascension)_(fate) -> anne_bonny_(fate)
remove implication anne_bonny_(swimsuit_archer)_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> anne_bonny_(swimsuit_archer)_(fate)
create implication anne_bonny_(swimsuit_archer)_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> anne_bonny_(fate)
remove implication anne_bonny_(swimsuit_archer)_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> anne_bonny_(swimsuit_archer)_(fate)
create implication anne_bonny_(swimsuit_archer)_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> anne_bonny_(fate)
deprecate anne_bonny_(swimsuit_archer)_(fate)
remove implication mary_read_(swimsuit_archer)_(first_ascension)_(fate) -> mary_read_(swimsuit_archer)_(fate)
create implication mary_read_(swimsuit_archer)_(first_ascension)_(fate) -> mary_read_(fate)
remove implication mary_read_(swimsuit_archer)_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> mary_read_(swimsuit_archer)_(fate)
create implication mary_read_(swimsuit_archer)_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> mary_read_(fate)
remove implication mary_read_(swimsuit_archer)_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> mary_read_(swimsuit_archer)_(fate)
create implication mary_read_(swimsuit_archer)_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> mary_read_(fate)
deprecate mary_read_(swimsuit_archer)_(fate)

Starting off with yuri pirates. Choosing to deprecate the tags instead of nuke them due to the likely odds there are posts of them currently tagged without the specific ascensions.

BUR #39990 is pending approval.

remove implication kiyohime_(swimsuit_lancer)_(first_ascension)_(fate) -> kiyohime_(swimsuit_lancer)_(fate)
create implication kiyohime_(swimsuit_lancer)_(first_ascension)_(fate) -> kiyohime_(fate)
remove implication kiyohime_(swimsuit_lancer)_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> kiyohime_(swimsuit_lancer)_(fate)
create implication kiyohime_(swimsuit_lancer)_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> kiyohime_(fate)
remove implication kiyohime_(swimsuit_lancer)_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> kiyohime_(swimsuit_lancer)_(fate)
create implication kiyohime_(swimsuit_lancer)_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> kiyohime_(fate)
deprecate kiyohime_(swimsuit_lancer)_(fate)

Swimsuit Kiyohime. None of these swimsuits look a thing like each other. The only difference between these and her base form is that all of these have her hair up in some manner, but not the same way as each other. If anything I think her Swimsuit third ascension should imply her base third ascension instead on account of the shared hair & eye color difference.

Skipping Martha (Swimsuit Ruler) because that also has a through-line. See y'all whenever I reach the next batch of swimsuit servants I guess (or if anyone wants to debate with me in this thread about these changes ig).

BUR #40078 is pending approval.

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Oh hey I reached the next batch of Swimsuit servants. Skipped Nero because there's a through-line between ascensions 1 & 3 and ascension 2 is a special case. Skipping Fran because there's a through-line in her hexagon horns and hair ornament. Skipping Nobbu because that's another messy umbrella tag. Skipping Maid Alter because I'm scared. I'll loop back to Nito in the next BUR. So... Helena time.

All different outfits. Only connection is her water gun, and the fact that her first and third ascensions technically have the same hairstyle. Otherwise they all look like totally different costumes (because they are). Not to mention the first ascension is a reference to meat wars.

BUR #40079 is pending approval.

remove implication nitocris_(swimsuit_assassin)_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> nitocris_(swimsuit_assassin)_(fate)
create implication nitocris_(swimsuit_assassin)_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> nitocris_(fate)
remove implication nitocris_(swimsuit_assassin)_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> nitocris_(swimsuit_assassin)_(fate)
create implication nitocris_(swimsuit_assassin)_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> nitocris_(fate)
deprecate nitocris_(swimsuit_assassin)_(fate)

This one's mildly trickier, I'll admit. First and second ones share the common MEDJED motif, but are also explicitly like... kinda the same costume? She just pulls the sheet upwards on the second one. We don't even have a tag for the first ascension (per the wiki), since it's covered by Medjed (fate) (cosplay). And then the third ascension looks completely different.

Skipping Raikou for having a common throughline. See ya when I reach 2018

Updated

BUR #40197 is pending approval.

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Ushiwaka. Another case of all the swimsuits looking different, though arguably her first & second ascensions are the same design palette-swapped plus/minus a jacket. The only other connection is she just kinda generally looks older, but that's just because Sakamoto Mineji changed how they drew Ushiwakamaru in the years since FGO released (as evidenced by the appearance of the tachi-e for her Lostroom Outfit and arguably even in her formal dress CE).

BUR #40200 is pending approval.

remove implication medb_(swimsuit_saber)_(first_ascension)_(fate) -> medb_(swimsuit_saber)_(fate)
create implication medb_(swimsuit_saber)_(first_ascension)_(fate) -> medb_(fate)
remove implication medb_(swimsuit_saber)_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> medb_(swimsuit_saber)_(fate)
create implication medb_(swimsuit_saber)_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> medb_(fate)
remove implication medb_(swimsuit_saber)_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> medb_(swimsuit_saber)_(fate)
create implication medb_(swimsuit_saber)_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> medb_(fate)
deprecate medb_(swimsuit_saber)_(fate)

Skipping BB for being another umbrella tag mess. Medb's got a different bikini and hairstyle in each ascension, only connection point is her sword. Skipping MHXX for a common through-line of her mecha suit/canonically being aged up compared to MHX. See you in 2019

Updated

BUR #40396 is pending approval.

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We've reached Musashi and her ameritiddies. Yay <3

All of her swimsuits are different. Only connective point is her single side bun, which... ehh.... I guess maybe.......?

Looks like that's the only one for 2019, since Okki's got a common throughline in her first 2 ascensions, Carmilla's got a shared throughline in her first and third, Ruler Artoria is a scary umbrella tag and again has a throughline in her first and third ascensions, Meltryllis has a common theme in her second & third with her prostheses and swimsuit design, and Okita J has a common throughline and is another scary umbrella tag.

Updated

BUR #40527 is pending approval.

remove implication tomoe_gozen_(swimsuit_saber)_(first_ascension)_(fate) -> tomoe_gozen_(swimsuit_saber)_(fate)
create implication tomoe_gozen_(swimsuit_saber)_(first_ascension)_(fate) -> tomoe_gozen_(fate)
remove implication tomoe_gozen_(swimsuit_saber)_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> tomoe_gozen_(swimsuit_saber)_(fate)
create implication tomoe_gozen_(swimsuit_saber)_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> tomoe_gozen_(fate)
remove implication tomoe_gozen_(swimsuit_saber)_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> tomoe_gozen_(swimsuit_saber)_(fate)
create implication tomoe_gozen_(swimsuit_saber)_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> tomoe_gozen_(fate)
deprecate tomoe_gozen_(swimsuit_saber)_(fate)

Tomoe's turn. Feel like it might be time for me to restate my argument from the start of the thread because that is the world's least inviting paragraph of text blarghed out all at once.

Simply put -- are we treating the Swimsuit version tags as "alternate version" tags or as "costume" tags? Because if they're alternate version tags, then we should be implying the various costumes to their swimsuit versions as applicable, which has previously been rejected on the principle of lacking "something common visually" (forum #320599). But if they're costume tags, why do we have umbrella tags for these swimsuit servants which, plainly put, have 3 completely different outfits for each ascension?

Either you're able to identify their specific ascension costume, in which case that specifically should be tagged, or it's vague enough (i.e. nude) that there's no reason to be tagging the swimsuit servant to begin with. If someone wants to find all of these at once for some reason, wildcards can still be used (in this case, tomoe_gozen_(swimsuit_saber)_*_(fate)).

And if people just want to see their favorite characters in a swimsuit, they can just use the swimsuit tag (tomoe_gozen_(fate) swimsuit), especially as these swimsuit servants started getting less and less consistent with their relation to actually being swimwear (Murasaki Shikibu (Swimsuit Rider) (Second Ascension) is blatantly just serafuku cosplay, and perhaps more infamously Barghest (Swimsuit Archer) doesn't have a swimsuit until her final ascension - her first ascension is park ranger, her second ascension is maid, and her third ascension is exoskeleton).

BUR #40529 is pending approval.

create implication murasaki_shikibu_(swimsuit_rider)_(first_ascension)_(fate) -> murasaki_shikibu_(fate)
create implication murasaki_shikibu_(swimsuit_rider)_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> murasaki_shikibu_(fate)
create implication murasaki_shikibu_(swimsuit_rider)_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> murasaki_shikibu_(fate)
deprecate murasaki_shikibu_(swimsuit_rider)_(fate)

Aforementioned Swimsuit Rider who doesn't even wear a swimsuit for her second ascension. These tags never got implied to Murasaki Shikibu (Swimsuit Rider) meaning this BUR is slightly shorter than all the others.

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