create alias african -> very_dark_skin
EDIT: This tag alias is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.
EDIT: The tag alias african -> very_dark_skin (forum #147391) has been rejected by @Hillside_Moose.
Updated by DanbooruBot
Posted under Tags
create alias african -> very_dark_skin
EDIT: This tag alias is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.
EDIT: The tag alias african -> very_dark_skin (forum #147391) has been rejected by @Hillside_Moose.
Updated by DanbooruBot
Use this tag for characters with distinct African origin or body features.
Either we alias it, or it keeps getting populated.
tapnek said:
Or we can change the definition to fit the term better. Just use it for very dark skin.
Not everyone is aware of the 1M+ tags on this site, and most users are more likely to use the more familiar terms. Changing the wiki is only as effective if people actually read it, which isn't very much at all. Bottom-line, without an alias, users WILL keep populating that tag.
Well... I've already brought up my point and made my vote, and I don't want to sound like a broken record. It won't be more work for me anyways.
The girl in post #850770 clearly dosnt have very dark skin though. Is there a term for light skinned black people that isnt offensive?
ion288 said:
The girl in post #850770 clearly dosnt have very dark skin though. Is there a term for light skinned black people that isnt offensive?
Unfortunately, no. They're not tanned so the only option is to tag them with dark skin.
The tag alias african -> very_dark_skin (forum #147391) has been rejected by @Hillside_Moose.
When something like post #1961086 gets mistagged it's clear few are reading the wikis.
Uh, if you check the tag history that was your tag.
Actually it wasn't, because the very_dark_skin tag was originally ebony and was aliased in topic #10308, with that wiki entry dating from when the tag was still 'ebony' - I suggested the new tag myself, but didn't consider that the wiki entry would be carried over and cause confusion.
My preference would be to just nuke that wiki and make very dark skin what it says on the tin, with no ethnic assumptions. I don't really know how best to tag clearly African people with lighter skin, but I guess african is as good a tag as any. It's better than 'ebony' anyway.
Sounds good to me. It's not terribly intuitive but a possible term is afro-textured hair. Other terms mentioned on that page are "kinky hair" and "wiry hair."
Edit: I have significantly revised this post in the two hours after posting it for organization and readability since it covers a lot of ground:
ion288 said:
How about an afro-appearance tag? It seems to be politically neutral and could separate depictions of "black" people from deeply tanned people and those with whitefro.
7HS said:
Sounds good to me. It's not terribly intuitive but a possible term is afro-textured hair. Other terms mentioned on that page are "kinky hair" and "wiry hair."
+1, I agree with this approach, it is very intuitive for users.
I will say though, "afro-textured" is not the same as an "afro" which is a big frizzy ball of hair like mine whereas afro-textured could have different styles. Afro is a distinct cultural style that should be kept as its own tag and not aliased, and should be included cornrows, and hairlocks as subsets of a broader afro-textured_hair tag. The afro-texutred tag also does not carry a racial requirement, which is good as other-raced people may wear their hair in African styles or African people may wear theirs straight.
As we populate that tag, it will become easier in the future to create more tags as the African styles mentioned in the article 7HS linked, further increasing the proposed tag's value. Now on to my own proposals:
Currently we're tagging for hair type and skin tone. Ethnicity is handled very poorly. We have a lot of ambiguous tags like mexican (79), indian (84), native_american (491), jewish (6), asian (589), and causacian (581) which are tagged without precision, meaning that a user may refer to culture, religion, the nation, ethnicity, or some combination.
Instead we can replace those with tags such as african_(ethnicity), latin_american_(ethnicity), white_(ethnicity) and others. To further clarify "african_(ethnicity)" to distinguish it from white settlers and Arabs in the north of the continent, we could instead use "sub-saharan_african_(ethnicity)" or black_(ethnicity) but I'm not sure, it could be insensitive or inaccurate.
For ambiguous characters like post #850770, mixed_race_(ethnicity) can be used in addition to other ethnic tags. For instance, it may be tagged white_(ethnicity) african_(ethnicity) mixed_race_(ethnicity). This removes the need to have to create a clear point of delineation where none may exist. The character also appears to me to be "light-skinned black," or what historically was called mulatto in the US from centuries of mixing but either could be insensitive words to use.
post #1961086 may be tagged african_(ethnicity) dark_skin
As a general rule in the anime world, most characters are light-skinned and may be seen as some generalized "white" or "asian," however tagging them all as such would be exhaustive and pointless. Further, a character may have dark skin but that does not make them black. Unless specific ethnic features are included, just specifying if a character has dark, tan, or abnormally light skin is sufficient.
Referring to groups as an ethnicity rather than a race leaves more room for real-world ambiguity. Race is also a politically-charged word worth just avoiding.
When it comes to fictional humanoid types it could be useful to alias tags like elf to elf_(race) and dwarf to dwarf_(race).
Those two tags and other human-like creatures in tag group:legendary creatures, as well as android could be implied to a tag like "humanoid" or "race_(fantasy)" (Wikipedia).
Tags such as belgium (12), brazil (128), and mexico (60) are ambiguous and may refer to a number of things like ethnicity, national sports team, or the nation itself. To address this they should have an aforementioned tag or possibly a "(place)" tag when referring to the country, or potentially "(nationality)" when where a character is from is important to a post. For instance if you're referring to Belgium the country, use belgium_(place) or a tourist from Belgium, belgium_(nationality); instead of brazil, latin_american_(ethnicity) or something like brazilian_national_football_team may be used.
(nationality) tags could verge into the "tag what you know" territory of the dictum, "tag what you see not what you know" so I'm not sure how practical they may be, unless someone has a better idea.
For countries like France, where the word for their people and language are the same—French—distinction is especially needed, in addition to the following proposal:
Instead of having tags like french or chinese, french_(language) and chinese_(language) should be used. Some users will inevitably assume that the former tags should be used where instead ethnicity or cultural tags are needed. The suffix _(language) will guide them to tag correctly.
So I've covered a lot here. I think if needed we could make a new "Ethnicity, culture, nationality, and language re-tagging effort" or maybe just rename this one if that's what it's become. I really would like to know what you think of all this so please let me know!
Updated
Soo, i don't like the "Replace ambiguous racial/ethnic tags with specific "(ethnicity)" ones" proposition because, for most of those, they are only used when the character's ethnicity plays a clear role in the image, even though in some cases they are Overused.
I mean, we don't need to tag every single Phara image with Egyptian.
Having big general tags like x_(ethnicity) will most likely lead to mandatory tagging where noticeable, even if you suggest not to and, i personally don't want to go down that road. Might lead to other problems regarding representation of subgroups, like dark-skinned south americans, or "anime dark" where they're drawn exactly the same as the other characters but have an unnatural dark grey skin tone.
The language suggestion, yes, absolutely.
keonas said:
Soo, i don't like the "Replace ambiguous racial/ethnic tags with specific "(ethnicity)" ones" proposition because, for most of those, they are only used when the character's ethnicity plays a clear role in the image, even though in some cases they are Overused.
I mean, we don't need to tag every single Phara image with Egyptian.Having big general tags like x_(ethnicity) will most likely lead to mandatory tagging where noticeable, even if you suggest not to and, i personally don't want to go down that road. Might lead to other problems regarding representation of subgroups, like dark-skinned south americans, or "anime dark" where they're drawn exactly the same as the other characters but have an unnatural dark grey skin tone.
Couldn't a specific ethnic group be specified for that SA group? Like maybe, indigenous_mesoamerica or indigenous_peruvian? Do you have another tag suggestion? I imagine dark_skin + latin_american_(ethnicity) would be sufficient. Someone like Phara, I don't see a need to tag them as an ethnicity, they are just a dark skinned char with some cultural indicators, they are racially ambiguous.