Why did you leave the (series) bit from the Street Fighter II (Series)/Street Fighter III (Series)/Street Fighter IV (Series) tags you unlinked though?
Posted under Tags
Why did you leave the (series) bit from the Street Fighter II (Series)/Street Fighter III (Series)/Street Fighter IV (Series) tags you unlinked though?
@KalpacMuskoxen, isn't Ingrid (CFAS Alternate) just ingrid_(capcom) capcom_fighting_allstars player_2? We normally don't give alternate colors like that tags. If we did, we'd have gotten a "Blue Reimu" tag years ago.
Damian0358 said in forum #445217:
@KalpacMuskoxen, isn't Ingrid (CFAS Alternate) just ingrid_(capcom) capcom_fighting_allstars player_2? We normally don't give alternate colors like that tags. If we did, we'd have gotten a "Blue Reimu" tag years ago.
We also didn't make official alternate costume tags for fighting games until this thread!
I'm not suggesting we tag every alternate color of every Street Fighter costume (there would be thousands, logistically impractical considering most have 0 posts to begin with) but Ingrid's CFAS alt has over 30 posts and has been in Capcom Fighting Allstars, Capcom Fighting Jam, Street Fighter Alpha 3 MAX, and Street Fighter 6. I feel like "why use one tag when a user can daisy chain three?" makes less sense than just using one tag for a somewhat popular costume, even if it's technically just a palette swap.
The first one is a matter of wiki organization: currently, the costumes are sorted in rough release order from game to game, and in the appearance section showing off their defaults, you'll occasionally see "pictured" assets showing a design as it appeared in-game in a later entry (ex. Sagat's SF1 design, but in SF5). So far, such "pictured" examples have been kept to the appearance section, but Kalp has attempted to spread them over to the costumes too, particularly those for costumes that appeared previously elsewhere unplayable (ex. Ibuki and Elena's SF3 school uniforms, appearing as their first Alternates in SF4). The reason why this is relevant is that this can encourage reordering the costumes in order of pure appearance and not just playability, so in Cammy's case, her SF6 Outfit 4 being listed before her first SF4 Alternate. I changed it so that it's back in its playable order, but we should probably decide how we want to sort these suckers (especially since, as I've mentioned before, Capcom's own order for SF5 on their website isn't based on initial release order like on fan wikis, but final release order, so initially time-limited costumes get pushed further back in order).
That's fair to have them listed by playable order. For SFV specifically, I followed the Shadaloo C.R.I. order because I link to the character's CFN costume page in each costume's wiki entry, and figured matching that order would be the most intuitive for cross-referencing.
Ex: han juri (school uniform)'s wiki links to https://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/character/juri/costume so the order of the costumes on that page is the order I used for the Han Juri wiki page.
Damian0358 said in forum #445217:
The second one is about Cammy White (Super Alternate). Fundamentally speaking, it's M. Bison (cosplay), which is why it was listed as such previously in the wiki. It's how Cammy would look were Bison to have possessed her. So I'd argue it should fall under the cosplay tag and not have its own tag - but the design is also not wholly Bison, since it's obviously Cammy-optimized. If we keep the tag, we have to remove the Bison cosplay tag, in my opinion.
Agreed on removing the cosplay tag. SFV established red Shadaloo uniforms are standard issue for the highest-ranking members, not exclusively Bison (although he seems to have sole claim to the peaked cap as their supreme leader, if Juri's True Boss costume and Ed's Battle Outfit official costume descriptions are anything to go by). Street Fighter: Duel's description for this specific costume is "What if the Killer Bee seizes control of the Psycho Power? Shadaloo Cammy enters the duel!😈🐝" - it's framed as Cammy leading Shadaloo, not being possessed by Bison. I'd support removing the cosplay tag from all Shadaloo-themed alts across the board.
Damian0358 said in forum #445217:
On that note, we could also discuss the shared costumes in the SF5 Track Suit, and the SF6 DriveTech Wear.
If you're suggesting making sf5_track_suit and drivetech_wear gentags and doing away with the chartags, I'm going to cite:
nonamethanks said in forum #441503
I'm not a fan of gentags when trying to lump different costumes into one tag either. It's an attempt at self gaslighting, we're just kicking the can down the road, except that:
- we also lose the ability to imply them to characters they belong to
- they become the exception as most costumes tend to be skin tags unique to a character
- people typically search for a specific character, not an overall costume. If someone's searching for cafe lycoreco uniform they're almost always trying to find a specific character wearing it, so they're always going to have to perform a two-tag search.
(Which I agree with!)
Damian0358 said in forum #445217:
May as well point out that I've been removing redundant 'SF6'-es from the qualifiers of characters that literally debuted with the game. It could be argued that, if they appear later, we'd just have to add them back in anyway, but we're committed to maintaining these tags anyway, so that's not really an issue.
I think removing the "SF6" qualifier is also just unnecessarily kicking the can down the road, because when these characters inevitably come back it demands we create BURs for every single Street Fighter 6 debutant's entire SF6 wardrobe to remove ambiguity. JP is already in Street Fighter: Duel, anyways.
It also looks inconsistent when Sagat's (sf6_outfit_3) and Kimberly's (outfit_3) are both SF6 original alts but follow different naming formats.
Damian0358 said in forum #445217:
I've not touched other potential instances for redundant 'SF' in qualifiers for other characters out of respect to Kalp, since he's also going through costumes in the SF mobile games, so, say, I can't remove the 'SF3' from Elena (SF3 School Uniform) (Street Fighter) because I've got no clue if she has a mobile game-exclusive school uniform.
This was nice of you; that tag was tricky. I was trying to stick to the format you did for Chun-Li's "chun-li (ssf2 swimsuit)" which made its playable debut as Outfit 4 in Street Fighter 6, but predates Street Fighter 6 by 30 years.
Originally this tag would have been named "Elena (SF4 Alternate)" but it doesn't originate from Street Fighter IV, it debuted in Elena's ending cutscene from Street Fighter III 2nd Impact, so I didn't want to misattribute the origin of the costume when it predates SFIV by a decade. She doesn't have any other school uniforms though, would renaming it to just "Elena (School Uniform) (Street Fighter)" be better?
Updated by KalpacMuskoxen
KalpacMuskoxen said in forum #445443:
That's fair to have them listed by playable order. For SFV specifically, I followed the Shadaloo C.R.I. order because I link to the character's CFN costume page in each costume's wiki entry, and figured matching that order would be the most intuitive for cross-referencing.
Ex: han juri (school uniform)'s wiki links to https://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/character/juri/costume so the order of the costumes on that page is the order I used for the Han Juri wiki page.
I personally don't think the Shadaloo C.R.I. order makes sense for precisely the reason why I'm also including rough release dates in the wikis - tagging confusion. We'd typically want to ensure that the design tagged is actually of that design, and that it's not being tagged based on vibes (ala what Kikimaru accidentally did with Juri's festive costumes).
To prevent such confusion, it makes sense to list it in rough initial release order and have that info listed somewhere, so that someone doesn't tag a skin from 2017 on fanart from 2006, unless a design is specifically based on an older one, ala Chun-Li's SF6 Outfit 4 being her SSF2 swimsuit, or Cammy's Tactical Fortnite appearance being based on her Final Fight Streetwise design.
KalpacMuskoxen said in forum #445443:
I'm not suggesting we tag every alternate color of every Street Fighter costume (there would be thousands, logistically impractical considering most have 0 posts to begin with) but Ingrid's CFAS alt has over 30 posts and has been in Capcom Fighting Allstars, Capcom Fighting Jam, Street Fighter Alpha 3 MAX, and Street Fighter 6. I feel like "why use one tag when a user can daisy chain three?" makes less sense than just using one tag for a somewhat popular costume, even if it's technically just a palette swap.
I'll note that I did specifically the narrowest search for that design, but ingrid_(capcom) player_2 also gives you basically the same result. Regardless, you have to understand the dangerous precedent you'd be setting here.
KalpacMuskoxen said in forum #445443:
This was nice of you; that tag was tricky. I was trying to stick to the format you did for Chun-Li's "chun-li (ssf2 swimsuit)" which made its playable debut as Outfit 4 in Street Fighter 6, but predates Street Fighter 6 by 30 years.
Originally this tag would have been named "Elena (SF4 Alternate)" but it doesn't originate from Street Fighter IV, it debuted in Elena's ending cutscene from Street Fighter III 2nd Impact, so I didn't want to misattribute the origin of the costume when it predates SFIV by a decade. She doesn't have any other school uniforms though, would renaming it to just "Elena (School Uniform) (Street Fighter)" be better?
I think that would probably be the best thing to do. Maybe you can do a BUR renaming it to just be (school_uniform) while adding the (sf4_alternate) utility alias.
KalpacMuskoxen said in forum #445443:
If you're suggesting making sf5_track_suit and drivetech_wear gentags and doing away with the chartags, I'm going to cite:
(Which I agree with!)
I still think that opinion sucks. The current combined SF5 track suit tags make up less than one page of posts, and the DriveTech wear less than 5. But the main reason why I asked is whether or not they basically look the same, since that'd be the main drive to combine them.
KalpacMuskoxen said in forum #445443:
We also didn't make official alternate costume tags for fighting games until this thread!
Sometimes we don't do things because someone forgot, sometimes because it's a bad idea. Just because fighting game costume tags were overlooked, doesn't mean making costume tags for simple alternate colors suddenly isn't a bad idea. 2-tag searches shouldn't be a be-all-end-all rule, but in this case the costume tag really would just be a replacement for a 2-tag search.