Alias fighting -> petty_fighting

BUR #60715 is pending approval.

create alias fighting -> petty_fighting

The fighting tag has long been a mess filled with mistagged posts. The tag as described in the wiki is supposed to be for very mundane argumentative fights, like two people slapping each other or a kid biting another kid's arm, and yet it is filled with images of bloody fights to the death due to the name of the tag being too broad. This also results in undertagging for battle and duel as posts that should fall under them get tagged as fighting instead, which is real annoying when trying to search for serious combat posts.

This alias should hopefully make it clear at first glance what the tag is supposed to be used for, and by extension result in less mistag related annoyance for people trying to browse for cool anime fight art.
Related discussions: topic #17757, topic #12408

+1, while I consider fighting itself should be deprecated.

Battle and Duel also gets constant mistags between themselves, where the latter is meant for one-on-one fights and the former is meant for larger scale fights (Either many-on-many or one-on-many).

rainyd said in forum #443978:

Battle and Duel also gets constant mistags between themselves, where the latter is meant for one-on-one fights and the former is meant for larger scale fights (Either many-on-many or one-on-many).

This is how I learned that battle and duel are supposed to be mutually exclusive usually, last time I checked it just said it was for "serious conflict" between "multiple characters", which I interpreted as including 2, so it's good that duel was added to the description at the beginning of this year (maybe it should say to use duel instead).
On another note, it also doesn't help that we have tags like fighting stance or boss fight, both of which should probably be in far more duels than battles or fighting, so I can see how confusion arises.

rainyd said in forum #443978:

Battle and Duel also gets constant mistags between themselves, where the latter is meant for one-on-one fights and the former is meant for larger scale fights (Either many-on-many or one-on-many).

I've been wondering about this as well. It's mostly battle being erroneously tagged over duel rather than the other way around, so maybe some utility aliases for both tags could help?

It's not necessarily a fix to battle/duel mistags, but I feel like an umbrella "combat" tag implicated to both duel and battle would be good to have, since often times I don't really care if it's 1v1 or many vs many, I just want to see action and dudes fighting. Such a tag could also have a "serious fighting" alias so it's easier to find when people search/tag for fighting with the intent of finding those kinds of posts.

BUR #60776 is pending approval.

create alias fighting -> petty_fighting
remove alias fighting -> petty_fighting
create implication petty_fighting -> fighting
create implication battle -> fighting
create implication duel -> fighting

Other idea: turn fighting into an umbrella tag.

This aligns better with its English meaning/usage (it means both serious and unserious fighting) and the tags like imminent_fight, fighting_stance, boss fight.

Probably deprecating it is also an option.

reg_panda said in forum #444115:

BUR #60776 is pending approval.

create alias fighting -> petty_fighting
remove alias fighting -> petty_fighting
create implication petty_fighting -> fighting
create implication battle -> fighting
create implication duel -> fighting

Other idea: turn fighting into an umbrella tag.

This aligns better with its English meaning/usage (it means both serious and unserious fighting) and the tags like imminent_fight, fighting_stance.

Probably deprecating it is also an option.

I'm not against the idea, but if we were to do this the implication of petty_fighting to fighting doesn't belong here. Battle and duel are both about serious fights, I don't think anybody looking for that wants to see one character pulling another's hair. That's probably an argument for making the umbrella tag something other than fighting or it's just going to lead to more confusion with petty_fighting.

BUR #61059 is pending approval.

create implication battle -> combat
create implication duel -> combat
create alias battle_(one-on-one) -> duel

rainyd said in forum #443978:

Battle and Duel also gets constant mistags between themselves, where the latter is meant for one-on-one fights and the former is meant for larger scale fights (Either many-on-many or one-on-many).

Let's clear that up and add an umbrella tag for all forms of violent conflict regardless of size.

World_Funeral said in forum #443886:

+1, while I consider fighting itself should be deprecated.

I agree. Someone remember to propose deprecate fighting once the first one goes through.

Also related to this is something I've wondered for a while: Is catfight only meant for petty fighting, for any unarmed combat, including e.g. wrestling, or for literally any fight between two girls, including epic sword fights to the death like post #10456946 that someone tagged catfight?

LightSolas said in forum #445331:

Also related to this is something I've wondered for a while: Is catfight only meant for petty fighting, for any unarmed combat, including e.g. wrestling, or for literally any fight between two girls, including epic sword fights to the death like post #10456946 that someone tagged catfight?

Based on my personal understanding (and the tag wiki's example), I think any professional combat sports like wrestling or boxing shouldn't be counted, let alone life-or-death fights. It should only be used to refer to unarmed fights between girls that don't involve any pro fighting techniques (hence the stereotypical attacks such as hair pulling and nail scratching).

These tags have always been a mess. We need to have a clear vision of all the possible conflict scenarios that we can tag, and we need to make the tags we're missing and sort them out.

• proper war depictions
• large-scale battles
• group fights
• one-on-one: duel? Ambiguous with Yu-Gi-Oh! and it feels weird to tag two people having a fist fight or Guts (Berserk) vs a dragon as "duel".
• petty/catfighting

Anything else I'm missing?

We have a lot of tags and pools all over the place for this. vs, one_man_army, pool:Against_All_Odds pool:To_the_Death, violence, sword fight, etc.

nonamethanks said in forum #450204:

Anything else I'm missing?

It gets more complicated the more you think about it.

Should we distinguish real conflict from combat sport? If so, where do we draw the line? If people are fighting in a modern boxing arena but clearly injuring each other, where does that fall? What about gladiators? What about sparring, using real weapons but not trying to harm each other?

Should we in any way distinguish human vs. human from human vs. monster, like for duel? What's the boundary between them, like for monstrous orcs and the like?

To what degree is action necessary? Should the leadup to combat (like two boxers or duelists squaring off) or aftermath (like stepping on the opponent's defeated bod) count? Where's the boundary there?

There's also one vs many fights, like a party of heroes taking on a demon lord or a bunch of mook bandits taking on the hero. Also consider battlefield, which shows both current and past sites of combat.

For the buildup, there's faceoff and showdown and stare down and confrontation/opposing sides. For the aftermath there's after battle and implied after fight.

As to what degree of action is necessary, as long as you can tag one of the attacks (punching, slashing, throwing, firing, etc), then the fighting has begun.

I've considered breaking down the battle into different stages:
1. favgroup #32749 : Before the battle / ready to battle / imminent fight / confrontation / faceoff / opposing sides.
2. favgroup #32750 : About to engage / the move is about to hit / imminent clash / imminent attack.
3. favgroup #32751 : During the battle / attacking / firing at opponent / clashing.
4. After battle / after attack / the opponent has been defeated.