The great tattoo vs body_markings question (featuring heart_facial_mark from the honkai star rail series)

Posted under Tags

BUR #57141 is pending approval.

create alias tattoo -> body_markings

If you look at our tattoo vs body markings tags you will notice that there is zero difference in how they are used.

This is especially true for facial mark tags: compare heart_tattoo facial_tattoo with heart_facial_mark, or teardrop tattoo with teardrop facial mark. They are exactly the same.
This is terrible for us, because we have the same kind of posts on two completely different tags, something which is not even immediately obvious to the more casual user. You might be missing half the results you're searching for depending on which tag you pick.

So what to do? The naive option is to alias tattoo to body markings, and to leave subtags for proper traditional tattoos, such as the already existing tribal tattoo, full-body tattoo and tattoo sleeve. More could be created for other cases, which at the moment are impossible to find anyway.
My first thought was to check in arm_tattoo or shoulder tattoo to find more examples, but those are filled with Hatsune Miku and they also don't look different from body markings.
We can't even say that tattoos are typically black: we have red_tattoo at 5k posts, and Miku's there too.

So in short, since you can't really tell whether a body marking is magical or made with ink, I think it's pointless to try and distinguish the two umbrella tags, and we should just merge them into one tag for "permanent" drawings on the body.
We will probably have to alias the rest of our tattoo tags to something like x_body_marking, though I don't think it's strictly necessary: pubic tattoo for example can just stay like that since it's a pretty well known meme, while it's debatable whether glowing tattoo is really mostly tattoos. It'll be a case by case basis, and naming wouldn't be a vital issue as long as everything's under the same tag.

I say permanent, because it doesn't look like this tag has been used on tally: tally body_markings has very few results, and in fact - ironically, even - there are more results under tally tattoo -race_fetishism -pubic_tattoo, even accounting for false positives (which I tried to exclude with the negated tags).

Whether we want to keep face marks/tattoos separated from non-face marks/non-face tattoos, that's a different question. The situation's already a mess with heart tattoo vs heart facial mark, so that's an issue that will have to be tackled after/if this is handled. For this reason, I didn't include an alias from facial tattoo to facial mark, to avoid scope creep and keep the voting simple, since facial tattoo currently implies tattoo. I will open a new thread for that once this is done.

Updated by nonamethanks

imo instead of aliasing tattoo to body markings i'd rather have a "markings" tags for each body part

the problem is that if a character is branded their body will be marked. body branding (scarification) is an actual thing IRL that is basically the same thing as tattoos more niche

asset #47280124

if you search for pubic tattoo you'll probably want to find post #2084314, but this post won't be tagged with pubic tattoo. the best tag we have for this right now is scar on crotch. some other examples

post #6163579 back brand
post #545543 breast brand
post #680390 ass brand

so imo it would be better if we had tags like

facial marking
shoulder marking
pubic marking
ass marking

i don't know if it's better to have pubic tattoo as a separate tag and imply pubic marking or alias to it. tbh it probably can't imply because it's going to be over 90% pubic tattoo anyway, unless admins have implication powers the average user doesn't.

another option is to do the opposite

keep the "tattoo" tags alone and use pubic tattoo, etc. for posts with branding scars. the tattoo tags is that 99% of marking posts will be tattoos anyway so this has minimal disruption in how the tags work currently. we could also have branded ass, etc. and imply branded ass -> ass tattoo

trapster77 said in forum #426803:

imo instead of aliasing tattoo to body markings i'd rather have a "markings" tags for each body part

the problem is that if a character is branded their body will be marked. body branding (scarification) is an actual thing IRL that is basically the same thing as tattoos more niche

asset #47280124

if you search for pubic tattoo you'll probably want to find post #2084314, but this post won't be tagged with pubic tattoo. the best tag we have for this right now is scar on crotch. some other examples

post #6163579 back brand
post #545543 breast brand
post #680390 ass brand

so imo it would be better if we had tags like

facial marking
shoulder marking
pubic marking
ass marking

i don't know if it's better to have pubic tattoo as a separate tag and imply pubic marking or alias to it. tbh it probably can't imply because it's going to be over 90% pubic tattoo anyway, unless admins have implication powers the average user doesn't.

another option is to do the opposite

keep the "tattoo" tags alone and use pubic tattoo, etc. for posts with branding scars. the tattoo tags is that 99% of marking posts will be tattoos anyway so this has minimal disruption in how the tags work currently. we could also have branded ass, etc. and imply branded ass -> ass tattoo

i mean, maybe i'm missing something but branding looks very different from regular tattoos or body markings, usually have a very different and specific context, and i don't think people that wanna see tattoos/body marks also want to see them as well

galaxymiku said in forum #426812:

i mean, maybe i'm missing something but branding looks very different from regular tattoos or body markings, usually have a very different and specific context, and i don't think people that wanna see tattoos/body marks also want to see them as well

it's a "mark"

if i created a favgroup for pubic branding scars the wiki would probably say "a branding mark on the pubic area"

btw if the brand/marking/tattoo tags are separate that means all shape tags end up duplicated as well

heart tattoo but if it's a brand it needs to be heart brand or heart-shaped scar

but imo it shouldn't even be "scar" because most scars are just cuts (if they aren't large scarred areas) but they are still shapeless compared to brands, so all "shaped scar" tags are going to be used mostly for brands. arguably even if you made a a shaped scar using a knife like post #9590961 that should just get dumped into the "marking" tag (or tattoo tag) so we could have only a single heart marking or heart tattoo instead of splitting it across heart tattoo, heart-shaped scar, heart-shaped mark, etc.

there are also some posts in barcode branded that can't be tagged barcode tattoo despite being basically the same thing

BUR #57808 is pending approval.

create alias body_markings -> tattoo

Making a separate BUR for the opposite. No matter what we do, the change will be huge (tattoo has 190k posts, facial mark has 130k posts). This would mean moving facial mark to facial tattoo.

I'd rather deprecate body markings and keep tattoo. I don't like the way we overthink things and come up with non-obvious tag names. If I see a character that clearly has a tattoo, and I'm looking at the tag list for the tattoo tag, I'm going to be confused when I find out they're called body markings instead because of some weird technicality.

If something is tattoo-like, it should be fine to call it a tattoo, even if maybe it's not a literal tattoo. Most of the things under body markings and facial mark are indistinguishable from tattoos, they're just not called that because they're not perceived as tattoos. This is usually because they're not typical tattoo designs (often geometric designs or lines running along the whole body, which we don't have a tag for), or because they appear to be magical or glowing (cf glowing tattoo), or because the character is perceived as someone who wouldn't get a tattoo (but would have markings that look exactly like tattoos for some reason).

The other issue with body markings is that it's ambiguous with body writing. I'm afraid of people seeing body markings and thinking it's for tallies or other random markings that aren't very tattoo-like.

BUR #57851 is pending approval.

create implication body_markings -> tattoo

an alternative would be to make body markings a subtype of tattoo

that's because the tattoo tag is usually for a tattoo tattooed on a single spot, except for full-body tattoo and tattoo sleeve which are larger. while body markings tends to be random marks all over the body

marking looks random
tattoo looks made by hand

the only tag we have for random-ish tattoos is tribal tattoo. and we wouldn't use this tag for body markings in general because they don't really look like tribal tattoos and some body markings are straight lines/squares

we could do the same for facial marks like post #11022280 and make it imply facial tattoo

but "shaped" marks like heart facial mark etc. should just become tattoos directly.

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