Idolmaster costumes

The bulk update request #53528 (forum #413853) has been approved by @evazion.

BUR #53679 has been approved by @evazion.

create implication hagiwara_yukiho_(cosmo_infinitum) -> hagiwara_yukiho
create implication hagiwara_yukiho_(relaxing_jasmine) -> hagiwara_yukiho
create implication hagiwara_yukiho_(white_snow_crystal) -> hagiwara_yukiho

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• Link to tags that couldn't be submitted

This is an automatic post. Use topic #31779 to report errors/false positives or general feedback.

The bulk update request #53679 (forum #414338) has been approved by @evazion.

BUR #56191 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication kisaragi_chihaya_(blossom_wave) -> kisaragi_chihaya
create implication kisaragi_chihaya_(clearest_echo) -> kisaragi_chihaya
create implication kisaragi_chihaya_(cyber_zero_gravity) -> kisaragi_chihaya
create implication kisaragi_chihaya_(intelligent_ice) -> kisaragi_chihaya
create implication kisaragi_chihaya_(kokororian) -> kisaragi_chihaya
create implication kisaragi_chihaya_(radiant_smile) -> kisaragi_chihaya

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BUR #56192 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication nakatani_iku_(fluffy_strawberry_milk) -> nakatani_iku
create implication nakatani_iku_(private_dress) -> nakatani_iku

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The bulk update request #56191 (forum #423402) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

The bulk update request #56192 (forum #423403) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #56520 has been rejected.

category juo_sena_(sekirara) -> general
rename juo_sena_(sekirara) -> sekirara_(idolmaster)
category amaya_tsubame_(rironbusou_shite) -> general
rename amaya_tsubame_(rironbusou_shite) -> rironbusou_shite_(idolmaster)
category amaya_tsubame_(shoshikantetsu) -> general
rename amaya_tsubame_(shoshikantetsu) -> shoshikantetsu_(idolmaster)

Have we decided on what to do with song costumes like these?

I created those two Tsubame tags, but I don't really have a strong opinion about how this should go.

It seems weird for Gakumas to use costume_name_(idolmaster) when other Imas games use character_name_(costume_name) when (a) the outfit is used specifically by one character and (b) the song is only sung by that one character. character_name_(costume_name) has more information in the tag, and is arguably more useful for auto-complete.

On the other hand, this obviously isn't a case like Xenoglossia, where the outfit is also an alternative version of the person - this is basically just clothing and hairstyle. And it does make sense for group costumes like campus_mode!!_(idolmaster). Even though each character's CM outfit is a little bit different, I'm pretty sure you could exactly reproduce character_name_(campus_mode!!) with a two-tag search.

I'm curious what the original reasoning for going with costume_name_(idolmaster) to begin with was. I took a look at Love Live tags and it seems they also use that format. I'm guessing just consistency between single-character outfit tags and group outfit tags?

By the way, amaya_tsubame_(shoshikantetsu) is a SR skin, so I'm pretty sure she sings Campus Mode with it. (Or maybe it's Hajime, it's been a long time since I ran an SR.) Every Gakumas character basically has two skins that sing Campus Mode, but the concert animation is different for SR and SSR skins.

I agree that using character-specific tags for solo songs is the right approach, similar to how official alternate costume tags are handled in Blue Archive. The reason I didn't go with character_name_(costume_name)_(copyright_name) from the start is that my first Imas game was Cinderella Girls. As you know, that copyright has nearly 200 characters, and many songs are centered around project groups of 4-5 members with fairly frequent release cycles, so rather than creating individual character tags one by one, I focused more on the costume of a specific song(group) and used general tags instead.

I still feel the same way about how Cinderella Girls song (costume) tags should be handled. But I think differently for other copyrights. Other copyrights have similar song release frequencies, but the character count is much smaller, so the management burden might be lighter. If there's ever a good time to change how tags are used, I think now, while the topic is being discussed, is the right moment.

So I think the solo song character tags mentioned in the BUR above should stay as they are. Also, if the costumes in a group song are completely identical (e.g. sakura photograph), using a general tag as currently done makes sense.

If an outfit is tied to a song, I always make it a gentag, even when it's a solo song. Then again, that means other stuff related to the song that isn't the outfit goes there as well, though it will mostly be the costume. That's my rationale in making tags like fighting my way (idolmaster) instead of Hanami Saki (Fighting My Way). Or chase! (love live!) instead of yuki setsuna (chase!).

If an outfit isn't tied to a song, and only one character wears it, then there's no reason to keep it a gentag. One example would be Yuki Setsuna (Afterschool School Idol), which was originally a gentag until I pushed for its conversion to a chartag.

It seems Rironbusou Shite is a song, so following previous precedent, it should be a gentag. The Shoshikantetsu costume is probably a hajime (idolmaster) costume, so it should be folded in there too. Unless we want to give them all the costume chartags just because they have names....

There are two cases worth thinking about: hajime and kimi to semi blue Both are group songs, but in hajime each character has a completely different costume, while in kimi_to_semi_blue there are unique costumes for the three main characters alongside a shared costume for other characters.

For hajime, I think the right approach is to create individual character tags and not use a general tag. For kimi to semi blue, I think we should create character tags for the three (Arimura Mao, Himesaki Rinami, and Shiun Sumika). while continuing to use a general tag for the shared costume elements (the bikini and white jacket). You might ask whether that means Mao, Rinami, and Sumika would end up with two tags like himesaki_rinami_(kimi_to_semi_blue)_(idolmaster) kimi_to_semi_blue_(idolmaster) — yes, but I think allowing that overlap is more beneficial when you consider search convenience down the line.

If we want to keep the Sekirara and Rironbusou Shite tags as they are now, we'll have to do something about the other solo song tags. Koukei (idolmaster) is mostly the costume, but there's stuff like post #8312402 where it's tagged for the strange Hiro-like creatures found in the MV. I don't think it's feasible unless we want both koukei (idolmaster) and Shinosawa Hiro (Koukei), with all the overlap that will bring.

hasu_no_hassennen said in forum #424559:

If we want to keep the Sekirara and Rironbusou Shite tags as they are now, we'll have to do something about the other solo song tags. Koukei (idolmaster) is mostly the costume, but there's stuff like post #8312402 where it's tagged for the strange Hiro-like creatures found in the MV. I don't think it's feasible unless we want both koukei (idolmaster) and Shinosawa Hiro (Koukei), with all the overlap that will bring.

This is just a general problem with ALL character tags, isn't it? Stuff like post #4757387 or post #7384376 exist, for example, but they don't require general tags for the implied characters.

On the other hand, another thought that comes to mind is doing what Vocaloid does — converting all song tags to copyright tags that imply each sub-copyright (deremas, shinymas, gakumas, etc.). If the tag evokes not just the costume but also MV scenes, album covers, choreography, characters (like that creature), and so on — as hasu pointed out — then treating it as a character tag would be too restrictive, as it would confine the tag to costumes alone. Tbh when I see mayuzumi_fuyuko_(sos)_(idolmaster), the album cover is what comes to mind — I'm not really sure what costume that's even referring to, which is exactly the kind of case hasu was referring to.

Sorry for going back and forth — I'm just writing down my thoughts as they come.

At the very least, completely merging song tags into character tags is not a good way to go for gakumas, as both can exist separately from each other.
1) sunfaded_(idolmaster) MV is performed in the default costume, but has lots of distinctive and recognizable features, which are frequently referenced without using the costume associated with the song, see post #10930945, post #10524502, post #9702458, post #9697180, etc.
Same with koukei (idolmaster) features mentioned above, though I think strange creatures should have their own tag.
2) Some songs do not feature any alternate costume at all, but can be referenced: mekurume_(idolmaster).
3) It's also nice to use a single tag to find song references for all the characters: campus_mode!!_(idolmaster)

Generally in gakumas there are three attire categories apart from the default costume:
1) idol costumes tied to a song (can be a solo or a group song) which are seen in upgraded character cards
2) alternate costumes not tied to any song - can't remember any tags for gakumas used this way, apart from sailor_swimsuit_(idolmaster)
3) collab costumes (no tags for those either)

Honestly, would be more useful to have non-song costume tags first, there are tons of those with no tags at all.

If we strictly keep tags named after songs as gentags, I just think it'd be useful to make sure to always use official alternate costume in conjunction with it so there's still a way to filter a search to just the costume. But (strictly speaking for solo songs) honestly I don't see any reason we couldn't have both "character_(song)" for the costume and a gentag "song_(copyright)" strictly for when there's any other imagery associated with the song, like a specific dance or lyrics or scene reference to a music video. Besides Sunfaded I think most of the other Gakuen Idolmaster solo songs with tags are really only used for their respective costume, but I'd only feel comfortable voting on BURs to convert them to chartags if they're kept to individual BURs, as opposed to grouping any together to get through them faster. And I would be against aliasing any "song_(copyright)" tags to "character_(song)", a rename or mass update would be better so song gentags can still be made separately later on if it becomes necessary.

For group songs where 2 or more characters wear similar enough costumes, even if they're not identical costumes but still stick to some cohesive theme (like Hajime IMO), I still like keeping it as 1 gentag instead of having to create 2 or more, potentially up to 9 chartags that are all named after the same song (assuming those costumes don't have their own separate individual names). It just feels like that'd create an unnecessary amount of work.

BUR #56700 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

mass update favgroup:53448 -> char:kisaragi_chihaya_(oathone)
create implication kisaragi_chihaya_(oathone) -> kisaragi_chihaya

This is Kisaragi Chihaya's costume from the OathONE solo concert. Except it's actually two dresses, it changes during the concert.

I think it would still be fair to include them both in one chartag? Instead of something like, a gentag for the concert as a whole or trying to distinguish them with two chartags (requiring me to come up with separate names for both of them).

BUR #56736 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

This BUR was created to apply the idea from forum #424573. It changes the categories of currently released song tags to copyright, and the next BUR will set them to imply gakuen_idolmaster, which is a sub-copyright of idolmaster.

If these BURs are approved, the next step would be to follow up with a BUR to change the trailing qualifier _(idolmaster) to _(song).
Or I'll just handle them together in the second BUR.

BUR #56853 has been rejected.

mass update fighting_my_way_(idolmaster) official_alternate_costume -official_art -> -fighting_my_way_(idolmaster) char:hanami_saki_(fighting_my_way)
mass update fighting_my_way_(idolmaster) official_art -> char:hanami_saki_(fighting_my_way)
create implication hanami_saki_(fighting_my_way) -> hanami_saki

I'll try proposing this, I already went through fighting my way and added official alternate costume to all the costume posts and that only left post #10159682 which is for a vtuber's cover of the song. For all the posts in the search fighting_my_way_(idolmaster) official_alternate_costume I didn't really see anything that looked like an important enough taggable reference to the song itself IMO, I think it should be okay to remove the tag from these posts but leave it for that single post I mentioned. But then there's fighting_my_way_(idolmaster) official_art that's literally used in the music video, so I'm not as sure about removing it from those.