Bible books

BUR #56482 has been rejected.

create implication old_testament -> the_bible
create implication new_testament -> the_bible
create implication book_of_genesis -> old_testament
create implication book_of_revelation -> new_testament
mass update the_bible jesus -> new_testament
mass update the_bible virgin_mary -> new_testament

The Bible has lots of books written over many centuries, so it makes sense to divide them based on the subject material. The Old Testament and New Testament are the most obvious splits. The Book of Genesis and the Book of Revelation have lots of specific characters and mythology so it makes sense to split those as well.

It can be argued that the Hebrew Bible and Christian New Testament should be treated separately, but this takes extra effort to sort out posts depicting only God or angels. For that reason, this request leaves 39 posts under the Bible tagged with nothing more specific.

should probably also imply then that the 4 csm sisters get the book_of_revelation tag since i've already seen you tagging them

I'll be frank here when I say that I never would've imagined that I would have to utter the words "Bible copysubtags" and "Three-layer copytag implication for the Bible".

agglego2 said in forum #424380:

It can be argued that the Hebrew Bible and Christian New Testament should be treated separately, but this takes extra effort to sort out posts depicting only God or angels. For that reason, this request leaves 39 posts under the Bible tagged with nothing more specific.

So, does that mean you think that the Hebrew Bible/Tanakh/Miqra should be aliased into the Old Testament, and the Bible copytag treated as the Judeo-Christian copytag? Because I could imagine fanart of Jewish interpretations of Moses and co. differing from Christian fanart.

BUR #56485 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create alias jesus_christ -> jesus

Before I think about this, I just realized someone typing "jesus_christ" won't find the tag for Jesus.

Also does this mean Jesus should be tagged with New Testament? Oh, it's already in the BUR.

The bulk update request #56485 (forum #424391) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Also, I just remembered that we also have the Quran to consider, thanks to post #5647796. Per the mass updates above, part of this is to ensure that we have a standard copytag for the characters in the Bible, subcopytag or not, but this artistic rendition of Archangel Gabriel from the Quran complicates things, and who knows whether or not we might eventually see a depiction of Islamic prophet Jesus too.

g1michigan said in forum #424389:

should probably also imply then that the 4 csm sisters get the book_of_revelation tag since i've already seen you tagging them

Only one Chainsaw Man post, post #7013460 got tagged with Book of Revelation because it was the only one with the Bible as a tag. Four Horsemen + CSM shows only two more posts, so a bulk request isn't needed for those.

Damian0358 said in forum #424390:
So, does that mean you think that the Hebrew Bible/Tanakh/Miqra should be aliased into the Old Testament, and the Bible copytag treated as the Judeo-Christian copytag? Because I could imagine fanart of Jewish interpretations of Moses and co. differing from Christian fanart.

I didn't think about it but yeah, aliases could be done for the Old Testament. I'm not proposing Jewish and Christian interpretations of the human figures be tagged separately, as I doubt they're divided so consistently to be useful, but I could be proven wrong.

I don't have an opinion on this, but I will say this is probably the most insane tagging discussion I've ever witnessed on Danbooru. And I'm no noob either!

Not a fan of combining both of them into the Bible tag, if for no other reason than it's getting uncomfortably close to those Evangelical nutters who claim everything Jewish is an offshoot of Christ's Great Plan. Despite many stupid people's claims otherwise, Judaism and Christianity are separate religions with very different themes, and trying to smash them together into one "Judeo-Christian" super-entity is wrong on several levels.

Frankly, and unfortunately with no small amount of irony, Judaism and Islam are much closer to each other than either religion is to Christianity.

Edit: All of these tags are brand new tags created by the OP for the express purpose of making this BUR. None of them are needed and should just be aliased to The Bible.

BUR #56502 has been rejected.

create alias old_testament -> the_bible
create alias new_testament -> the_bible
create alias book_of_revelation -> the_bible
create alias book_of_genesis -> the_bible

As above.

The old and the new testament are significantly different books in both themes and message. If someone wants to search specifically for art related to one or the other, such as wanting to see art depicting Jesus, his life, and his family and disciples, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to. Don't get suckered into getting mad in advance at imaginary scenarios or people that don't exist.

I think New Testament as a tag could imply both The Bible and Christian Mythology, so that the general concept of christian iconography can be searched at once - that's a user case that's very easy to imagine. The christianity tag is kind of a mixed bag at the moment, because it's been applied to nuns, priests, the act of praying and mascots like Luce alike, but Christian Mythology could serve as an umbrella tag specifically for religious figures and saints that are part of the christian canon.

nonamethanks said in forum #424460:

Christian Mythology could serve as an umbrella tag specifically for religious figures and saints that are part of the christian canon.

That's what that tag is for, for non-Bible Christian stuff.

nonamethanks said in forum #424460:

The old and the new testament are significantly different books in both themes and message. If someone wants to search specifically for art related to one or the other, such as wanting to see art depicting Jesus, his life, and his family and disciples, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to. Don't get suckered into getting mad in advance at imaginary scenarios or people that don't exist.

I think New Testament as a tag could imply both The Bible and Christian Mythology, so that the general concept of christian iconography can be searched at once - that's a user case that's very easy to imagine. The christianity tag is kind of a mixed bag at the moment, because it's been applied to nuns, priests, the act of praying and mascots like Luce alike, but Christian Mythology could serve as an umbrella tag specifically for religious figures and saints that are part of the christian canon.

The Christian Mythology tag is explicitly for depictions, characters, scenes that do not appear in The Bible, so trying to apply anything to that will make these duplicate tags. Anyone trying to find images of Jesus can easily search Jesus already (and now jesus_christ), so I'm not sure how or why you think I believe someone "shouldn't be allowed to".

If we're really set on keeping the testamant tags, I'm fine implying them to The Bible, but I still can think of no reason why we should have a three-deep implication with individual books.

Historyanon said in forum #424512:

If we're really set on keeping the testamant tags, I'm fine implying them to The Bible, but I still can think of no reason why we should have a three-deep implication with individual books.

Yeah, I think it would be fine to alias the individual books into the respective testaments.

BUR #56524 has been rejected.

create alias book_of_revelation -> new_testament
create alias book_of_genesis -> old_testament

As above, then. Making a new BUR instead of modifying the old one as there's already been voting on it.

The bulk update request #56502 (forum #424459) has been rejected by @Historyanon.

I'm not a fan of aliasing Genesis and Revelation. Book of Genesis (82) posts heavily outnumber other Old Testament posts (15). The Book of Revelation (19) has lots of unique and strange imagery that gets outnumbered by New Testament posts surrounding the Gospel (114, see the_bible ~new_testament ~jesus ~virgin_mary status:any).

Historyanon said in forum #424446:

Not a fan of combining both of them into the Bible tag, if for no other reason than it's getting uncomfortably close to those Evangelical nutters who claim everything Jewish is an offshoot of Christ's Great Plan. Despite many stupid people's claims otherwise, Judaism and Christianity are separate religions with very different themes, and trying to smash them together into one "Judeo-Christian" super-entity is wrong on several levels.

Frankly, and unfortunately with no small amount of irony, Judaism and Islam are much closer to each other than either religion is to Christianity.

Edit: All of these tags are brand new tags created by the OP for the express purpose of making this BUR. None of them are needed and should just be aliased to The Bible.

I think your frustration is misplaced. Having a tag for The Bible as we already have, and as you suggest already conflates Judaism and Christianity. The reason I used the term Old Testament is because the tag already shows a Christian bias, and I didn't want to imply that the Tanakh is "subordinate" to the Christian Bible. What this BUR does is make it easier to split the Jewish and Christian texts in a future BUR.

The main hurdle to splitting the two is the 35 posts under the_bible -book_of_genesis -book_of_revelation -old_testament -new_testament -jesus -virgin_mary status:any (down 4 more posts I sorted since made the OP). Most of them show angels or God without reference to specific humans or events. If other users can come to agreement on what to do with these, then I'm down to split the two and rename Old Testament. This would also decrease the amount of tag nesting (two layers instead of three).

Some of those are tagged with tags like archangel gabriel (cosplay) and archangel michael (cosplay). Is there a reason for this? Or are they just generic angel costumes that someone tried to tag as named angels? Or maybe they're named archangels, but from those series rather than the actual biblical ones?

Then there's the difference between Lucifer. and Satan. The former is almost always from the bible, while the other might be from anything given how much christianity has influenced the arts. What do we do with things like post #8386411? Just Christian Mythology?

nonamethanks said in forum #424968:

Some of those are tagged with tags like archangel gabriel (cosplay) and archangel michael (cosplay). Is there a reason for this? Or are they just generic angel costumes that someone tried to tag as named angels? Or maybe they're named archangels, but from those series rather than the actual biblical ones?

Then there's the difference between Lucifer. and Satan. The former is almost always from the bible, while the other might be from anything given how much christianity has influenced the arts. What do we do with things like post #8386411? Just Christian Mythology?

St. Michael and St. Gabriel as far as I'm aware don't have set appearances, other than Michael usually being depicted in art with a spear and Gabriel usually being depicted with white lilies. Theoretically the tag could've been referencing a specific depiction, like Leonardo da Vinci's Annunciation painting of St. Gabriel, but seeing as those images have no semblence I think it's a useless tag.

Speaking of useless tags I feel like Christian Mythology is a useless or at the very least very poorly used tag as it stands; every instance of it could be replaced with either Real Life + Christianity for historical figures who are saints (ie Thomas Aquinas, Saint Francis of Assisi, etc) or The Bible for supernatural figures (Archangel Michael, Famine (Book Of Revelation), etc). The Lucifer and Satan tags should also fall under The Bible instead of Christian Mythology.