"solo" tag discussion thread

Posted under Tags

Blank_User said:

But are they opposing it because they think the idea itself is bad, or is it because they're having trouble remembering how to use it? And what about the users that rely on its current definition for their searches, like what was just described in forum #403889?

That use case remains as simple as adding -multiple_views to your solo search, provided that an average of a single post every several pages of results being multiple_views proves enough of a search result "pollution" to solo to want to filter it out in the first place. Doing that exact shorts tank_top search and adding ~solo ~multiple_views to the search I've seen about a dozen multiple_views posts in the first 10 pages of results, most (not all admittedly, but most) of which WERE multiple views of the same character in the same outfit and thus STILL fit the need of having images of a character wearing a specific combination of clothes - and some were images that wouldn't even appear at all in a "new solo" search because they feature several characters.

Multiple_views's 319k posts represents less than 4% of solo's 6M, and a bunch of those multiple_views posts wouldn't even fit "new solo" anyways because they feature several characters; so the actual "dilution" would be even less than that. See forum #212079 the figures probably aren't too different nowadays even if the number themselves have doubled in size.

It's been over 4 years and we are STILL at the status quo where a concept as simple as "all images of one character" is impossible to search, because a 2-3% "dilution" and a -multiple_views search is apparently too much to handle.

blindVigil said:

Current: one instance is searchable; one character is literally impossible to search for, even for builders with unlimited tags
Proposal: one character is searchable; one instance is still 98% searchable, and you can subtract multiple_views to make it 100%, has essentially no impact on anyone Gold+

"No, I hate that idea, it would inconvenience me too much."

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Blank_User said:

On the other hand, if we can think of a name for a new tag for what some want solo to be, then they can use that instead without causing friction with those accustomed to the current use of solo.

Your proposal is the creation of another 6M+ tag that would have 98-or-so% overlap with solo, purely to avoid potentially having to do a negative search to filter out one post every couple of pages on average. Is that /really/ a more reasonable solution, or a feasible solution at all?
chartags:1 is not a solution either due to gachas and costume tags.

Astolfo said:

Your proposal is the creation of another 6M+ tag that would have 98-or-so% overlap with solo, purely to avoid potentially having to do a negative search to filter out one post every couple of pages on average. Is that /really/ a more reasonable solution, or a feasible solution at all?
chartags:1 is not a solution either due to gachas and costume tags.

You're right. Having another tag that can't be implied would place an unnecessary burden on users. It's clearer after reading through the thread (which I did read through before but forgot about). If expanding solo's use would allow both concepts to be searchable, then I support it on a theoretical level. What I'm skeptical about is how realistic it would be to actually achieve that.

If NNT's claim of most users misusing the tag still holds true now, then maybe the transition will be smoother. In that case, the few people that use it "correctly" can be notified through DMail about the new standard. But it might be harder if most users are following the current guidelines.

Bumping this topic because it came up in conversation on the discord again about whether posts like post #10994447 should be tagged solo still due to the presence of Katsuyu (Naruto) and the remaining existence of the clause "A single character with unnamed pet or object characters" in the solo wiki.

My personal opinion is that it's silly to consider not tagging solo on an image like this because of a literal slug but thought I'd mention it in here again before I go ahead and change the wiki since the tag is so important.

I think posts like post #10994447 should be tagged solo_focus. Because Katsuyu is a named character, there are visibly two distinct entities, creatures however you wanna name it in the image. The solo tag should be strictly reserved for images containing exactly 1 humanoid, creature, or animal (dolls, plushies are alright of course even if they're named). On community run databases like Danbooru, sticking to a literal tagging system is important to keep searches accurate since common sense is too subjective and you risk splitting searches (which already happened "Jiji and Kiki came up about 1/5 solo, 4/5 not")

Updated by g1michigan

NiceLittleDan said in forum #423963:

Bumping this topic because it came up in conversation on the discord again about whether posts like post #10994447 should be tagged solo still due to the presence of Katsuyu (Naruto) and the remaining existence of the clause "A single character with unnamed pet or object characters" in the solo wiki.

That clause is wrong. 1girl, 1boy, and solo are all counting the same thing: people, or things that act like people. If it's not something you would tag as 1girl or 1boy, then it's probably not something that should count against solo.

I can name many things that have chartags but that aren't people:

If these things counted against solo, then there are many characters that could never be tagged solo because they always appear together with some sidekick character that only has a chartag because it happens to have a name in the lore.

evazion said in forum #423990:

That clause is wrong. 1girl, 1boy, and solo are all counting the same thing: people, or things that act like people. If it's not something you would tag as 1girl or 1boy, then it's probably not something that should count against solo.

What about posts like post #10574280 then? Is the solo tag wrong here? Morgana (Persona 5) is a full fletched character in the game, he appearing in solo tagged posts alongside Joker (Persona 5) feels weird. Since I'd tag him as 1boy I think the solo tag doesn't apply here?

Also confusing how tag group:character count says "Basically you can't use solo on a post just because there is only one 1girl counter, because named animals count AGAINST solo, but there are no counters FOR named animal characters, so sometimes a post is just 1girl without solo." I guess outdated then?

Updated by g1michigan

g1michigan said in forum #423996:

What about posts like post #10574280 then? Is the solo tag wrong here? Morgana (Persona 5) is a full fletched character in the game, he appearing in solo tagged posts alongside Joker (Persona 5) feels weird. Since I'd tag him as 1boy I think the solo tag doesn't apply here?

You wouldn't tag Morgana as 1boy in that post because he's a cat, and animals aren't supposed to be included in the gender count, because they're not "people". If he's in his humanoid form, then sure, but not when he's just a completely normal house cat.

blindVigil said in forum #423999:

You wouldn't tag Morgana as 1boy in that post because he's a cat, and animals aren't supposed to be included in the gender count, because they're not "people". If he's in his humanoid form, then sure, but not when he's just a completely normal house cat.

Yeah, you're right. In the solo wiki entry it says "Situations that can be solo include: A single character with one or more inanimate dolls or photos of other characters. A single character with unnamed pet or object characters." The "unnamed pet" part is unnecessary and confusing then, since you wouldn't tag any animal despite unnamed or named with 1girl , 1boy since evayion said:

If it's not something you would tag as 1girl or 1boy, then it's probably not something that should count against solo.

g1michigan said in forum #423996:

What about posts like post #10574280 then? Is the solo tag wrong here? Morgana (Persona 5) is a full fletched character in the game, he appearing in solo tagged posts alongside Joker (Persona 5) feels weird. Since I'd tag him as 1boy I think the solo tag doesn't apply here?

This is essentially my position on the matter. Most named animals are like Arthur from Code Geass - they are characters in the loosest possible sense, ie. they have a green tag to search for and identify them. They aren't sentient, they can't talk, they often lack significant personalities or character traits... they're just, well, animals. They might be important to some of the cast, but they're only characters on a technicality.

This is in stark comparison to Morgana, who is part of Persona 5's main cast, the third member of the party, and has more dialogue than any other character in the game, often to the point you want to strangle him. Telling someone who has played Persona 5 that "even this isn't enough to stop that post from being solo just because he's in cat form" is unintuitive at best. For the same reasons, it would also feel wrong applying that logic to similar characters such as Kiki's Jiji, or animalizations such as in post #10957087 and post #10894792.

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