Deprecate Short Male

BUR #42777 has been rejected.

deprecate short_male

This is one of those BURs that I am deeply saddened to have to make this request for, as there is a really solid idea in here, believe it or not. If you look at the tag's wiki, you'll see that this isn't a case like smaller female and is in fact supposed to be for the trope of absurdly short men in anime compared to everyone else (think Mineta Minoru or Hoshi Ryoma, for example). This is a very solid tag concept, and I always felt like a tag was missing for when I upload art of the latter character.

Unfortunately, no doubt due to the name, this tag has become polluted with every height difference post you can think of. As a result, the tag has ended up like those other tags we had to deprecate a la smaller female. And so, it must be deprecated.

What I want to do is figure out a solution to tag the concept without it getting polluted like this one, which can most easily be done by deprecating the tag and moving all applicable posts over to a new tag. But I don't got any good naming ideas beside very short male, which I worry would result in the tag getting polluted all over again.

Knowledge_Seeker said:

BUR #42777 has been rejected.

deprecate short_male

This is one of those BURs that I am deeply saddened to have to make this request for, as there is a really solid idea in here, believe it or not. If you look at the tag's wiki, you'll see that this isn't a case like smaller female and is in fact supposed to be for the trope of absurdly short men in anime compared to everyone else (think Mineta Minoru or Hoshi Ryoma, for example). This is a very solid tag concept, and I always felt like a tag was missing for when I upload art of the latter character.

Unfortunately, no doubt due to the name, this tag has become polluted with every height difference post you can think of. As a result, the tag has ended up like those other tags we had to deprecate a la smaller female. And so, it must be deprecated.

What I want to do is figure out a solution to tag the concept without it getting polluted like this one, which can most easily be done by deprecating the tag and moving all applicable posts over to a new tag. But I don't got any good naming ideas beside very short male, which I worry would result in the tag getting polluted all over again.

A gender-neutral term because I can't think of a gender-specific one at the moment, but maybe "absurd height difference" could work?

Placeholder1996 said:

A gender-neutral term because I can't think of a gender-specific one at the moment, but maybe "absurd height difference" could work?

Hm...I'm not against the idea, but I'm worried about the tag becoming interchangable with the already existing size difference tag. It should ideally be able to encapsulate images like post #8300602, without being mistaken for something like post #9456988.

Knowledge_Seeker said:

BUR #42777 has been rejected.

deprecate short_male

This is one of those BURs that I am deeply saddened to have to make this request for, as there is a really solid idea in here, believe it or not. If you look at the tag's wiki, you'll see that this isn't a case like smaller female and is in fact supposed to be for the trope of absurdly short men in anime compared to everyone else (think Mineta Minoru or Hoshi Ryoma, for example). This is a very solid tag concept, and I always felt like a tag was missing for when I upload art of the latter character.

Unfortunately, no doubt due to the name, this tag has become polluted with every height difference post you can think of. As a result, the tag has ended up like those other tags we had to deprecate a la smaller female. And so, it must be deprecated.

What I want to do is figure out a solution to tag the concept without it getting polluted like this one, which can most easily be done by deprecating the tag and moving all applicable posts over to a new tag. But I don't got any good naming ideas beside very short male, which I worry would result in the tag getting polluted all over again.

Give me a few days and I will clean out the pollution. No need to deprecate when all it needs is gardening, especially when the definition is painfully clear.

machan12 said:

Give me a few days and I will clean out the pollution. No need to deprecate when all it needs is gardening, especially when the definition is painfully clear.

Sounds good. My main goal here was to stop the pollution by moving applicable posts to a new tag and nuke the pollution, which I thought a deprecation would solve. If the pollution is cleared up first, a deprecation won't be necessary at all.

Knowledge_Seeker said:

Sounds good. My main goal here was to stop the pollution by moving applicable posts to a new tag and nuke the pollution, which I thought a deprecation would solve. If the pollution is cleared up first, a deprecation won't be necessary at all.

I've gone ahead and pruned, so the males who have been mistagged short male like have been removed. This included a lot of Ichikawa Kyoutarou, who looks made shorter in comparison to the tall female Yamada Anna, who is as tall as the average Japanese man at age 13 (5'7"), while Kyoutarou hasn't even hit his growth spurt yet. Yes, I even checked wikis to be sure. You can probably close out the deprecate request.

However, please keep in mind that while you think this tag only applies to men as short as Mineta Minoru or Hoshi Ryoma, the definition states:

A male who is significantly shorter than average. This tag does NOT apply to shota, who by definition are small boys. A good rule of thumb is a man who is chest height to an average female. A man of average or greater height being shorter than a tall female does not qualify.

The tallest example of a short male is Mario, who is chest high to Peach, while Mineta Minoru is at the low end. 155cm (5'0") is the cut-off point.

machan12 said:

I've gone ahead and pruned, so the males who have been mistagged short male like have been removed. This included a lot of Ichikawa Kyoutarou, who looks made shorter in comparison to the tall female Yamada Anna, who is as tall as the average Japanese man at age 13 (5'7"), while Kyoutarou hasn't even hit his growth spurt yet. Yes, I even checked wikis to be sure. You can probably close out the deprecate request.

Yep, sounds good to me. The problem was the pollution, and with that taken care of, there's no need to deprecate anymore. Thank you.

However, please keep in mind that while you think this tag only applies to men as short as Mineta Minoru or Hoshi Ryoma, the definition states:

The tallest example of a short male is Mario, who is chest high to Peach, while Mineta Minoru is at the low end. 155cm (5'0") is the cut-off point.

Don't worry, I'm fully aware (and very much agree on it being a spectrum). I just thought referring to those two would make for an easy opener, and we needed the tag cleaned up before I could even attempt to go into the nuances (like with Mario, especially when compared to Princess Peach).

The bulk update request #42777 (forum #362228) has been rejected by @Knowledge_Seeker.

Now that the worst of the issues here have been taken care of, I can't help but wonder if a tag rename would help prevent pollution like that from happening again. Maybe that's a debate worth having?

Knowledge_Seeker said:

Now that the worst of the issues here have been taken care of, I can't help but wonder if a tag rename would help prevent pollution like that from happening again. Maybe that's a debate worth having?

I'm not sure what kind of rename would even work there. The biggest problem from what I saw pruning is that people assume that a female taller than the male automatically mean the male qualifies for the short male instead of it being a case where tall female applies. Like with the Anna example, that's not the case because Kyoutaru is average for his age, Anna's the oddity. Alternatively, they slap one tall female and short male "just to be sure." It may be that the answer is just pruning regularly.

Probably the closest thing to help prevent mistagging is maybe something like absurdly_short_male which feels kinda mean. sorry hirose koichi its not our fault hirohiko draws you like half of your canon height

Ylimegirl said:

Probably the closest thing to help prevent mistagging is maybe something like absurdly_short_male which feels kinda mean. sorry hirose koichi its not our fault hirohiko draws you like half of your canon height

I think "absurdly short male" doesn't sound awful, as it fits pretty well with the characters this tag is meant to encapsulate, and should stop the worst of the mistags. Thoughts?

machan12 said:

I'm not sure what kind of rename would even work there. The biggest problem from what I saw pruning is that people assume that a female taller than the male automatically mean the male qualifies for the short male instead of it being a case where tall female applies. Like with the Anna example, that's not the case because Kyoutaru is average for his age, Anna's the oddity. Alternatively, they slap one tall female and short male "just to be sure." It may be that the answer is just pruning regularly.

Alas, there's a good chance no matter what we do, it might be one of those tags people regularly have to clean of mistags. But I don't want to surrender to the gardening grind as an inevitability quite yet, so let's see if we can find another solution.

Not a fan of absurdly short male. It completely eliminates the spectrum and limits it to your Mineta Minoru or Hoshi Ryoma types.

..I got it! Why not "very short male"? That way, you still safely can have the high-end of the spectrum, without leaving the tag wide open for mistags, and it doesn't restrict the tag to the low-end of the spectrum. Maybe that could work?