Posted under Tags
BUR #34548 has been approved by @evazion.
create alias weibo_logo -> weibo_watermark
This tag keeps getting used in situations where Weibo watermark should be used. Over 8.1k images, and I can only find a handful that are actually just the Weibo logo as opposed to the Weibo watermark. We don't need two tags for effectively the same thing, so let's nip this in the bud.
Now, I'm not sure if my alias approach is the best, but I am open to any possible better suggestions.
I would assume that the current use of Weibo logo was never its intended purpose. I do believe that most logo tags are intended for when a logo is actually incorporated into the image rather than as a metapresence (e.g. a watermark). That being said, it would be a royal pain to garden these - arguably not even able to be gardened anymore. Just not wholly sure this can be safely aliased.
I wouldn't be so opposed to axing one of these tags. Personally I prefer that Weibo watermark goes rather than Weibo logo. At least in the case of the latter, there's some precedent for tagging iconic logos from various sites or copyrights when they're a notable part of the image. It wouldn't exactly resolve anything though since people would just continue to tag Weibo logo whenever the watermark appears. I admit, I do this, because I thought it was the right way to do it.
Weibo watermark is only one of a few very hyperspecific watermark tags which I find pointless. I don't know why we have a specific tag for Weibo's watermark and I don't think anyone cares or is searching for it. Some Weibo posts don't even have the watermark and some people don't even tag it when it does appear; I feel as though source:*weibo is what people should be using if they really want to find things from Weibo.
On the note of finding Weibo's hyperspecific watermark tag pointless, unlike logos, we have no precedent for tagging anything specific about watermarks. The only other significant watermark that gets tagged is sample watermark; virtually all other watermarks go untagged or exist in other legitimate forms such as artist logo. Weibo watermark is only one of a few number of hyperspecific watermark tags, the others of which barely exist:
Alias in this direction? Maybe not. I agree with the idea driving your BUR but I can't give it support knowing that I find the continued existence of Weibo watermark pointless.
WRS said:
On the note of finding Weibo's hyperspecific watermark tag pointless, unlike logos, we have no precedent for tagging anything specific about watermarks. The only other significant watermark that gets tagged is sample watermark; virtually all other watermarks go untagged or exist in other legitimate forms such as artist logo. Weibo watermark is only one of a few number of hyperspecific watermark tags, the others of which barely exist:
- Xiaohongshu watermark (21 tagged, 2185 Xiaohongshu sources)
- Miyoushe watermark (180 tagged, 3255 Miyoushe sources)
- SKLand watermark (10 tagged, 15 SKLand sources)
Another thing in common for these watermark tags is that, for some reason, they're only for Chinese(-adjacent) websites. We don't have a deviantArt watermark tag, which consists of the deviantArt logo, despite the fact that it's probably way more common on our side of the net as opposed to Weibo's watermark. And I don't even think that watermark gets tagged in any fashion.
BUR #35180 has been rejected.
create alias weibo_watermark -> weibo_logo
Alternate BUR proposal based on what's been mentioned above.
I still fail to see the problem with these specific watermark tags. We have highly specific tags for usernames as it stands, and those have yet to go. Hell, I'd be down to make a tag for, say, DeviantArt watermarks, if we go down that route. Like, for example, what if you want to see posts from Weibo but without the watermark? Not every post from there has it, so it'd be necessary to have a tag to filter them out, which Weibo watermark does just fine a job of.
The problem is that no one is searching for these and letting them stay sets a bad precedent where we start tagging every hyperspecific meta detail on a post which just looks gross and creates more tag padding. I don't mind us creating a special case for Weibo since we have a lot of posts sourced from them and the watermark is prominent enough; this is also why I didn't do anything about those tags in the BUR I created for the sort-of-joined topic #29815. Though while I don't mind, I still don't agree to begin with.
The mere proposal of creating a DeviantArt watermark tag is exactly the kind of padding I'm sure people want to avoid. Also, the existence of other hyperspecific tags doesn't necessarily serve as a good case when it's a different circumstance altogether. Other types of usernames (e.g. Patreon usernames) are more prevalent especially for paid reward available images. Not that I find them useful either and they already don't get tagged often.
Should also consider that no one's moved to do anything about username tags or they might be useful in some form, which is why they aren't gone. That's a separate discussion to open which as far as I'm aware no one really has. The reason I can say all this is because you've given attention to the Weibo tags via this topic so I can actually put down an opinion about them which is that I think they're pointless.
Also: if, hypothetically, the Weibo watermark tag vanished, then you would just be using the generic watermark tag. source:*weibo -watermark would be an equvialent search to source:*weibo -weibo_watermark if you wanted to find Weibo posts without the watermark. Unfortunately, I don't see wanting to find unwatermarked Weibo posts as a strong justification to keep the hyperspecific one when an equivalent search is ready.
as the uploader of most of the posts currently tagged skland watermark i think if these tags are removed it would be necessary to create some kind of source-generated watermark tag as a watermark slammed on the bottom of every single image by a website is in my opinion different from something an artist manually put on top of their image (with regard to intent, appearance etc)
as a searcher i would like to be able to search -watermark to avoid those huge "AI NG etc" watermarks without excluding every post from certain websites
wrt. weibo logo itself i think ideally it would be cleaned to never have the watermark imply it in my opinion because it is similarly meaningless (or to have a separate tag for weibo logos that are actually part of the art)
I don't see why these tags are suddenly bad. Like tamuraakemi says, they're fundamentally different from actual artist-added watermarks, and having a tag (specifically one that doesn't imply watermark) for it is useful for negation, same goes for other sites. Doing something like combining them all into a hypothetical platform watermark seems fine too, but they definitely shouldn't be combined with normal watermarks.
Not suddenly bad, I've always hated these tags and think they're useless padding. Basically, the issue for me isn't the existence of a watermark tag, it's the existence of hyperspecific ones. If we distinguish a platform watermark from artist watermarks, I don't have an issue with that personally and wouldn't be opposed if a BUR rolled them into one. Such a tag would also be considerably futureproof and not need regular implications/otherwise.
That's basically my only issue. With my point being rooted in "tags are for searching", I do acknowledge and agree with the desire for negation and am not opposed to setting something up for that case. It's also reasonable to not roll every single type of watermark into one single tag because then that poisons its usage, so essentially the same as what I initially said but sans specifically the watermark tag and a new general "site" watermark tag instead. We already have sample watermark, having some more granular options for watermark by more major uses of it (artist, site, general watermarks) would be kind of nice.
I'm not offering up a strict dichotomy with my opinion. Except for how I firmly believe that having a tag per site's watermark is incredibly dumb, I'm cool with the rest. I just didn't really think about it from the angle of rolling them into a general tag so my BUR on the other topic nukes them rather than moving them all to a single tag. That might be a good proporsal to get rolling.
Weibo logo is redundant with Weibo watermark. Weibo watermark should be aliased to second-party watermark along with any other site-specific watermarks. If third-party watermark is a watermark added by an unrelated person, then first-party watermark would be a watermark added by the artist themselves, and second-party watermark would be a watermark added by the site the artist uploaded it to.
The actual site that added the watermark doesn't really make a difference. The only utility I see in these tags would be in distinguishing first-party watermarks, where the actual artist added the watermark so a better version probably can't be found, from second-party watermarks, where the watermark was added by the site so a better version might be found if the artist uploaded it somewhere else.
counterpoint on weibo, at least: as far as i know, you have to personally choose to add a watermark on weibo, it's not automatic like on lofter with samples (i don't know enough about the other sites). sure, you don't add it directly in the art program but on the site, but it's still something that artist controls, even if the watermarks all end up looking identical
my proposal: BUR #35201, aka merging the watermarks added on/by the site into website watermark
Updated by sinfulporcupine
The bulk update request #34548 (forum #322570) has been approved by @evazion.
The bulk update request #35180 (forum #328917) has been rejected by @evazion.
The only thing I found under weibo logo that referred to the actual logo itself was post #3398341. Everything else was either weibo watermark (the watermark added by the site) or weibo username (a watermark added by the artist).
