Posted under Tags
create implication zero_suit -> bodysuit
I'm not to familiar with Metroid but I know the ending outfits (http://www.ssbwiki.com/images/4/42/Samus_Zero_Shorts.jpg) and the zero suit are two seperate things and the zero suit is as far as I know always a body suit.
It's a tag for a unique character outfit so many of the posts on the tag are adapted costume pictures that wouldn't be tagged with bodysuit.
hurrghhurrgh said:
It's a tag for a unique character outfit so many of the posts on the tag are adapted costume pictures that wouldn't be tagged with bodysuit.
It's sufficient for those tag to be an adapted costume. Nobody tags serafuke of a kantai collection character if it is a bikini. Same thing here. The zersuit is a specific type of clothing.
Btw. at some of those pictures the bodysuit part is untouched and there are some bodypainting pictures or they are bikinis/sweaters/dresses.
The zero suit tag is full of variant designs, from bikinis (post #2256856) to sweaters (post #1264748) to bodypaint (post #1953258). If, and only if, there is a consensus that the tag should refer to the zero suit itself and not other costume designs based on the zero suit, then the tag will require a lot of cleaning up before we can even think about creating an implication.
iridescent_slime said:
The zero suit tag is full of variant designs and adapted costumes, from bikinis (post #2256856) to sweaters (post #1264748) to bodypaint (post #1953258). If, and only if, there is a consensus that the tag should refer to the zero suit itself and not other costume designs based on the zero suit, then the tag will require a lot of cleaning up before we can even think about creating an implication.
Thezero suit is a specific kind of bodysuit only made for Samus. It is even a basic "item" in the games (Zero Mission, Other M). From the game's side it sgould be clear how this tag is to be used.
hurrghhurrgh said:
Specific costume tags exist to both be umbrella tags for variants like this and facitilate finding pictures of characters who don't normally wear them wearing them.
The tag is functioning exactly as intended.
Then the intention and what the thing really is are two seperate things and btw. shouldn't we tag what we see?
So...how can a sweater possibly be a (zero) suit? This just doesn't work and the intention fails because it goes against two basic tagging elements (What we see and what the thing is in the first place (a suit -> see Wiki page).
Provence said:
Thezero suit is a specific kind of bodysuit only made for Samus. It is even a basic "item" in the games (Zero Mission, Other M). From the game's side it sgould be clear how this tag is to be used.
You could say the same thing about her varia suit, but it gets the same sort of treatment here: post #1975322
If an outfit is distinctive enough to receive its own tag, variant designs and parodies should still get that tag. Otherwise, how else are we supposed to search for them?
iridescent_slime said:
You could say the same thing about her varia suit, but it gets the same sort of treatment here: post #1975322
If an outfit is distinctive enough to receive its own tag, variant designs and parodies should still get that tag. Otherwise, how else are we supposed to search for them?
I don't know. Maybe some kind of zero_suit_(adapted) (which would imply adapted_costume).
(Same thing btw. about plugsuit.)
Provence said:
Then the intention and what the thing really is are two seperate things and btw. shouldn't we tag what we see?
So...how can a sweater possibly be a (zero) suit? This just doesn't work and the intention fails because it goes against two basic tagging elements (What we see and what the thing is in the first place (a suit -> see Wiki page).
Variants and parodies of all sorts have always been tagged with what they're variants and parodies of, because they're things people would want to see on that tag. Character, copyright, and costume tags aren't some sort of bastion of perfect identifiable canon depictions.
You're tagging exactly what you see: an adapted version of the zero suit.
hurrghhurrgh said:
Variants and parodies of all sorts have always been tagged with what they're variants and parodies of, because they're things people would want to see on that tag. Character, copyright, and costume tags aren't some sort of bastion of perfect identifiable canon depictions.
You're tagging exactly what you see: an adapted version of the zero suit.
The funny thing here is you're not calculating 1+1 but 1*1. Or to be more specific: If you tag zero suit you want to see a bodysuit since there is no adaption (and btw. we have a big hole in the bodysuit-section because of this). If you tag zero_suit_(adapted) you want to see a adapted version but it isn't necessarily a bodysuit (it can be one like a leotard). And this tag wouldn't cause a big traffic problem since you can see the most used tags by typing something into the search box.
If I'm not satisfied with the search results for zero suit and want to see its original design, I can search for zero_suit bodysuit. Simple as that. Creating a new tag and a new set of implications solves a problem that never existed.
As for that "big hole in the bodysuit-section", I have no idea what you're talking about. The overwhelming majority of images tagged zero suit are already tagged bodysuit as well.
We don't usually implicate specific outfit patterns to specific outfit types, because of the fact that you can identify the design without having to use all the original components of that outfit. What you're proposing would be no different than implicating a character to a specific race, and we don't do that because said character might be depicted in a form other than that race. We're not going to create a ton of specific_outfit_(specific_form) tags to cover every variant that may appear, nor should we set a precedent for it. We'd just be settings ourselves to creating a bunch of unnecessary tags.
Also bodypaint versions of outfits generally are not adapted versions of the outfit, so tagging them as "adapted" would be wrong. Going by your propsoal then we'd have to either not tag those outfits at all or we'd end up now having to create another set of tags with a _(bodypaint) qualifier.
NWF_Renim said:
We don't usually implicate specific outfit patterns to specific outfit types, because of the fact that you can identify the design without having to use all the original components of that outfit. What you're proposing would be no different than implicating a character to a specific race, and we don't do that because said character might be depicted in a form other than that race. We're not going to create a ton of specific_outfit_(specific_form) tags to cover every variant that may appear, nor should we set a precedent for it. We'd just be settings ourselves to creating a bunch of unnecessary tags.
Also bodypaint versions of outfits generally are not adapted versions of the outfit, so tagging them as "adapted" would be wrong. Going by your propsoal then we'd have to either not tag those outfits at all or we'd end up now having to create another set of tags with a _(bodypaint) qualifier.
May be but why?
Why is it unneccesary since members can only search by to tags? It is just a more specific search tool and only because it was always like that it should stay this way? Doesn't seeem to be a good reason for me because changes are alwys present. So either we let members or visitors search for more tags but 2 (since 2 tags don't concretise a search good or specific enough) or I see no unneccesary reason behind this kind of tags, even if there are only two pics of bodypainted zersuits.
Provence said:
May be but why?
Why is it unneccesary since members can only search by to tags? It is just a more specific search tool and only because it was always like that it should stay this way? Doesn't seeem to be a good reason for me because changes are alwys present. So either we let members or visitors search for more tags but 2 (since 2 tags don't concretise a search good or specific enough) or I see no unneccesary reason behind this kind of tags, even if there are only two pics of bodypainted zersuits.
Well here's the thing, even with the argument that users can only search with two tags, your proposal doesn't actually gain them anything in the larger picture. All we'd be doing with your idea is shifting what tags cause users complications with the two tag search. Instead of a user being able to use one tag to cover the design, they would now have to use 2-3 tags to pull up all images of the zero_suit. So yeah, now they don't have to do a zero_suit bodysuit search to find all bodysuits with the zero suit design, but any user who wants to pull up all images of the zero suit design now has to search 2-3 tags because the design search now becomes a zero_suit zero_suit_(adapted) zero_suit_(bodypaint) search.
If the next step of the argument goes "well, we could make a parent tag for the design and implicate the subtypes" then the immediate response is "well, if we do that, then why do we need the subtypes? We could just have the tag cover all depictions of that design and use a separate tag to cover what it is composed of, like plugsuit bodypaint or plugsuit adapted_costume."
NWF_Renim said:
Well here's the thing, even with the argument that users can only search with two tags, your proposal doesn't actually gain them anything in the larger picture. All we'd be doing with your idea is shifting what tags cause users complications with the two tag search. Instead of a user being able to use one tag to cover the design, they would now have to use 2-3 tags to pull up all images of the zero_suit. So yeah, now they don't have to do a zero_suit bodysuit search to find all bodysuits with the zero suit design, but any user who wants to pull up all images of the zero suit design now has to search 2-3 tags because the design search now becomes a zero_suit zero_suit_(adapted) zero_suit_(bodypaint) search.
If the next step of the argument goes "well, we could make a parent tag for the design and implicate the subtypes" then the immediate response is "well, if we do that, then why do we need the subtypes? We could just have the tag cover all depictions of that design and use a separate tag to cover what it is composed of, like plugsuit bodypaint or plugsuit adapted_costume."
Good point here. Hmm, and yes I do understand the reasoning, that was never the problem but you seem to be right this idea wasn't thought through the whole thing. Al least this is out of the world now. Expecially the last sentence in the first section makes a lot sense :/.
