Allthoug discused in forum #11080 the epic tag is subjektive. Looking trhough it I find a lot of posts that are only epic in kontext. Superman fighting son_goku would probably be epic but post #400377 is not necessarily so. If some one dosent know who Son Goku is (blessed be their ignorance) the image would be rather bland.
I encounterd a lot of posts wich did not "inspire awe and wonder upon sight" becaus I didn't know what was going on.
What should be done with this tag? I could take it on my self to police it but there would probably only be about a third of the curent posts left after I was done.
Subjective tags are subjective, nothing you can do about it. Policing wouldn't work, because it's subjective -- unless Danbooru implements some sort of, dunno, poll system. Which is unlikely and bothersome. Anyway, if they didn't get rid of what, I really doubt they'd get rid of epic.
PS: Allthoug -> although subjektive -> subjective kontext -> context dosent -> doesn't encounterd -> encountered wich -> which becaus -> because curent -> current (Don't be offended :) Native language German, I'm guessing?)
I don't really understand this initiative to convert subjective tags into pools. What's the point? Simply to remove them from the tag listing? Remember that what pools a post belongs to is much more prominently displayed on the post page than what tags it is tagged with. Also, pools have an ordering of posts within them, whereas tags do not - epic, what, etc. don't seem to have any natural ordering that would make them suitable to become pools. So what's up?
truth is terrible as well. It doesn't even make any sense by its own definition for a lot of the posts it's on, which is really the problem with all subjective tags.
But the only real solution to getting rid of them is nuking the tags and that's always a controversial proposition.
0xCCBA696 said: I don't really understand this initiative to convert subjective tags into pools.
It's mentioned quite clearly in the pool help page though: "This makes pools ideal for subjective tags, or for posts that are part of a series."
Considering also the fact that other subjective tags have been converted to pools in the past (like clever or squeezable) I don't see why other similar tags should be an exception (except what, perhaps).
0xCCBA696 said: Also, pools have an ordering of posts within them, whereas tags do not - epic, what, etc. don't seem to have any natural ordering that would make them suitable to become pools. So what's up?
Stuff like pool #756, pool #903, pool #1083, etch. don't have any natural ordering either, but that doesn't mean they should be tags instead of pools.
0xCCBA696 said: Remember that what pools a post belongs to is much more prominently displayed on the post page than what tags it is tagged with.
Fred1515 said: It's mentioned quite clearly in the pool help page though: "This makes pools ideal for subjective tags, or for posts that are part of a series."
This is a non sequitur however. To quote the context: "They are similar to favorites with three important differences: public pools allow anyone to add or remove from them, you can create multiple pools, and posts in a pool can be ordered. This makes pools ideal for subjective tags, or for posts that are part of a series (as is the case in manga)."
I don't see how one follows from the other.
Considering also the fact that other subjective tags have been converted to pools in the past (like clever or squeezable) I don't see why other similar tags should be an exception (except what, perhaps).
And every time I've asked for explanation: why are pools better? What feature makes subjective pools better than subjective tags?
Is that bad?
If we find subjective tags undesirable, I don't see how converting them into something with a huge bar above helps.
jxh2154 said: truth is terrible as well. It doesn't even make any sense by its own definition for a lot of the posts it's on, which is really the problem with all subjective tags.
I agree. As far as I see, in order to qualify for the truth tag, there has to be a clear, preferably absolute, statement or message that's conveyed. While stuff like post #548939, post #560747, post #429659 can be funny, they fail to meet that criteria and thus shouldn't really have the tag at all IMO.
Personally I'm rather partial to the tag as one of the people who fostered it during its ancient infancy, but yeah, if the current standards are to be followed then it ought to be converted to a pool like most other ex-subjective tags.
I've argued against the huge bar many times. Pools should be like tags. I've even made a mockup of how they should look before ( http://i50.tinypic.com/11hrklj.jpg ), although I would additionally want to see the current pagenumber too. (So instead of just listing the total in the pool, it would list current/total). But that's a design issue more than anything.
Anyway, I think the reason people don't like subjective tags is they're seen as a statement of the site as a whole. Whereas if it's a pool, it's more of a personal expression of what that is to the person that owns the pool (or the people if multiple people participate). So while I hate useless tags like epic and cute, I'm okay with pools like Disgustingly Adorable. They're more like a collection of images, and so they don't need to cover every image that's disgustingly adorable, nor does every image need to qualify for me.
From a practical standpoint, we also get a lot less arguing about pools than tags, because the subjectivity of a pool like Disgustingly Adorable is implicit, whereas a tag like epic is seen as a sort of statement of fact, leading to arguments like "this isn't epic! why is this tagged epic?" Pools don't seem to have that problem as much.
スラッシュ said: I've argued against the huge bar many times. Pools should be like tags. I've even made a mockup of how they should look before ( http://i50.tinypic.com/11hrklj.jpg ), although I would additionally want to see the current pagenumber too. (So instead of just listing the total in the pool, it would list current/total). But that's a design issue more than anything.
The only real problem with pool navigation like this is it makes pools even harder to navigate, maybe if it was above the tag list it would work but with tags varying from post to post you would have to hunt down the navigation every post. (Other than that I like it.)
Good point... I guess they could go above the tags list, since it's rare to have more than 1 or 2 pools. Maybe you could even have a setup screen or something to set the order, although that might be a whole new world of pain to program, and also create an inconsistent interface. So forget I said that!
スラッシュ said: I've argued against the huge bar many times. Pools should be like tags. I've even made a mockup of how they should look before ( http://i50.tinypic.com/11hrklj.jpg ), although I would additionally want to see the current pagenumber too. (So instead of just listing the total in the pool, it would list current/total). But that's a design issue more than anything.
I agree this would be nicer, with the Log caveat that it needs to be up top so the location of the < > arrows doesn't change from one post to the next as you're scrolling through. But I think one of he reasons it got the big bar is because long pool names would wrap like crazy if they were in something only the width of the tag list.
Maybe the pool/parent bars could be made smaller instead?
葉月 said: This is a non sequitur however. To quote the context: "They are similar to favorites with three important differences: public pools allow anyone to add or remove from them, you can create multiple pools, and posts in a pool can be ordered. This makes pools ideal for subjective tags, or for posts that are part of a series (as is the case in manga)."
I don't see how one follows from the other.
That doesn't mean it's wrong though, it's just not written very clearly. Maybe it follows from the fact that they're similar to favorites (that are obviously subjective as well).
But since we mentioned that, the various help sections could probably be made a bit more clear and easy to follow, especially for new members.
jxh2154 said: But I think one of he reasons it got the big bar is because long pool names would wrap like crazy if they were in something only the width of the tag list.
Right, too many titles are too long for something like that.
葉月 said: Eh? That still doesn't explain why pools are better. Justify that claim, because I'm not seeing it, and just repeating it doesn't make it true.
Slash mentioned some things a few posts above, and my take on the matter isn't that different: Tags are supposed to accurately describe the content of an image in order for people to be able to search for it. The subjective tags we're discussing have little to do with what is actually depicted, and are more about what some people's subjective opinions about the image are, thus making them not only useless, but also confusing for the rest. Pools don't have that problem, since they're subjective by definition, and the way they're used doesn't cause drama or confusion, as Slash mentioned.
Also, pools like Charisma Break, or Disgustingly Adorable, or pretty much any pool that's not about some 4koma or comic series is just as well defined (if not better in some cases) than these tags, but obviously that's not reason enough to make them all tags.
Btw why do you think subjective pools aren't better than subjective tags? The only argument I've seen is about the huge bar, and that's an issue for all pools and parent and child posts, and not really an argument about what should be a pool and what shouldn't.
