Selfcest Without Self

BUR #60378 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication selfcest_without_self -> selfcest

Form of selfcest and every post in that tag already has both.

Also, while we're at it: Considering about half the tag is Elsword (lmao), I feel like it's worth noting that while Elsword has several class paths for characters (see Ainchase Ishmael's wiki for an example) there is a canonical class that the character goes through over the course of the main story. For Ain, that's Bluhen. And like with every other class in the game, there's quite a bit of art of Bluhen getting with Ain's other classes. (e.g. post #10543020). So would that count as selfcest without self when it's technically still himself? Is the Ship of Theseus still the same ship?

I wonder, couldn't this tag be renamed to something better? Just tossing out name alternatives, like variant selfcest or selfcest between variants.

GreyOmega said in forum #442727:

I wonder, couldn't this tag be renamed to something better? Just tossing out name alternatives, like variant selfcest or selfcest between variants.

Yes, please.

The bulk update request #60378 (forum #442724) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #60741 is pending approval.

create alias selfcest_without_self -> selfcest_between_variants

Since no one else suggested any alternatives.

GreyOmega said in forum #443987:

BUR #60741 is pending approval.

create alias selfcest_without_self -> selfcest_between_variants

Since no one else suggested any alternatives.

The idea of this tag was for posts where the "original" wasn't present at all. Wouldn't this name instead include (or suggest to include) things like Saber (Fate) with Saber Alter?

I really don't see what's so bad about the current name. Not everything has to be named in a boring way.

Depends on how you define "variant." A variant doesn't necessarily have to include the original, ie they're variants of the original "normal" one. Your definition of "self" in "selfcest without self" is no better because you're arbitrarily defining "self" to mean "original" version, when it could just as well refer to any specific variant. Given that, the current naming would include things like Saber (Fate) with Saber Alter as well.

nonamethanks said in forum #443988:

The idea of this tag was for posts where the "original" wasn't present at all. Wouldn't this name instead include (or suggest to include) things like Saber (Fate) with Saber Alter?

Does that distinction matter? The way I see it is that, where typical selfcest is between identical clones of the same character, this tag would be for two different versions of the same character. The additional restriction that one isn't the default version seems unnecessary.

See for example Hatsune Miku - you can have selfcest between two clones of the original Miku, or between the original Miku and Brazilian Miku, or between Sakura Miku and Brazilian Miku. The second one would presumably not count under this tag, because only non-original Mikus count.

There are also things like VTuber selfcest between alternate costumes instead of full-fledged alternate forms - see ouro_kronii selfcest. It's unclear to me whether these would count as variants or not.

I think identical selfcest and non-identical selfcest would be better names for it, where identical is for two clones of the same variant and non-identical is for two different variants (dual persona).