Asians and Indians

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Damian0358

BUR #54274 has been approved by @evazion.

create alias indian -> desi
remove alias indian -> desi
create alias asian_indian -> desi
create alias south_asian -> desi
deprecate indian

In forum #303845, I originally proposed a version of this BUR due to the Worldwide Miku trend at the time. A number of artists created 'Desi Mikus'. Unless there's additional tells in the art, you wouldn't know what South Asian country to tag, as 'Desi' is a broad term used to refer to the peoples of the Indian subcontinent. The closest thing we have to a Desi tag is the Indian tag, but tagging Indian on someone from Pakistan or Bangladesh doesn't seem right, even if the wiki at the time allowed it (and 'East Indians', ex. Indonesians, for some reason, until I removed that bit).

My opinion on this hasn't really changed, I think it just makes sense to rename the Indian tag to Desi, but I also recognize that some folks probably dislike just not having a utility alias for Indians, so unlike last time, I've included a asian_indian utility alias along with a south_asian one. While indian mistags for native american have gone down in years, they do still occassionally happen, warranting a deprecation (maybe also an american_indian alias for the latter tag, but someone else can ask for that).

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Freshblink Knowledge Seeker rainyd Confetto Sibyl CommentaryRequest World Funeral gunupmyskirt Alixiron
Damian0358

BUR #54279 has been rejected.

create alias indian_clothes -> desi_clothes
remove alias indian_clothes -> desi_clothes
create alias asian_indian_clothes -> desi_clothes
create alias pakistani_clothes -> desi_clothes
create alias bangladeshi_clothes -> desi_clothes
deprecate indian_clothes

May as well make this BUR then, if the OP BUR gets approved.

Interestingly, in past discussion about Indian clothes, it was asked what would be used for Native American clothes, and at the time, Native American was proposed (forum #141306). Since then, someone has made a Native American clothes tag. Someone should check how well gardened that tag is relative to the Native American tag.

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Alixiron Confetto Knowledge Seeker Sibyl CommentaryRequest Freshblink NeptuneStarPrime
nonamethanks

Damian0358 said in forum #416444:

May as well make this BUR then, if the OP BUR gets approved.

Interestingly, in past discussion about Indian clothes, it was asked what would be used for Native American clothes, and at the time, Native American was proposed (forum #141306). Since then, someone has made a Native American clothes tag. Someone should check how well gardened that tag is relative to the Native American tag.

Pakistani and Indian clothes are significantly different, due to the completely different religious values (islam vs hinduism/buddhism). We're trading off one ambiguous tag for a mess of different clothes.
You're doing the equivalent of proposing that we merge japanese clothes, chinese clothes and korean clothes together here.
At the moment indian clothes is mostly for traditional indian garbs (sari for example is implied to it). But lumping something like the baloch, which is much closer to an arabian turban than a Sikh headpiece, into it would be very weird imo.

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nonamethanks

Damian0358 said in forum #416426:

My south_asian utility alias did remind me of asian's existence, and how it's for East Asians. We should probably make it more specific.

This is another terrible idea for me, for the same same reason I was opposed to nuking african. How is someone supposed to search for drawings of characters that distinctly look asian? Especially for realistic pictures. It's not like most anime looks like real people. See photorealistic asian for example.

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Damian0358

nonamethanks said in forum #416449:

This is another terrible idea for me, for the same same reason I was opposed to nuking african. How is someone supposed to search for drawings of characters that distinctly look asian? Especially for realistic pictures. It's not like most anime looks like real people. See photorealistic asian for example.

You'd search photorealistic east_asian. People from South Asia and Southeast Asia are also Asian, but they aren't represented in the Asian tag because that tag is for East Asians. Nothing is being nuked, only clarified.

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nonamethanks

Damian0358 said in forum #416425:

BUR #54274 has been approved by @evazion.

create alias indian -> desi
remove alias indian -> desi
create alias asian_indian -> desi
create alias south_asian -> desi
deprecate indian

I also don't like the main BUR of this thread because it confuses the people (desi) for the culture. This would be like merging all of our tags for french, german, swedish clothes etc into caucasian clothes. We do need a tag for east indians that is properly defined though, because the description of that tag is bizarre - we shouldn't be lumping things like Nepal into it. A Sikh looks and dresses completely differently from a Sherpa.

Damian0358 said in forum #416450:

You'd search photorealistic east_asian. People from South Asia and Southeast Asia are also Asian, but they aren't represented in the Asian tag because that tag is for East Asians. Nothing is being nuked, only clarified.

I misread then, my apologies. It was a kneejerk reaction because it's not the first time someone tries to nuke high information tags like these for no good reason.

Updated by nonamethanks

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Damian0358

nonamethanks said in forum #416451:

I also don't like the main BUR of this thread because it confuses the people (desi) for the culture. This would be like merging all of our tags for french, german, swedish clothes etc into caucasian clothes. We do need a tag for east indians that is properly defined though, because the description of that tag is bizarre - we shouldn't be lumping things like Nepal into it. A Sikh looks and dresses completely differently from a Sherpa.

I understand your logic relative to clothes, which is why I gave the alternate BUR for Indian clothes in response to your comments, but as I pointed out, the wiki for Indian itself stated "East Indian/South Asian people and costumes."

The fact we have distinct Indian and Indian clothes tags suggests that the "and costumes" part matters less to Indian than the "people" part, making Indian more akin to Asian as a tag. So there's no confusing the people for the culture, as the tag is for the people, not the culture, thus making Desi an appropriate alternate name for the tag. On the fact that Nepal, Bhutan, and to a lesser extent, Myanmar, are lumped in, that's something we can just agree to remove from the wiki if it helps in getting the tag name changed.

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