Improving cohesiveness in background and environment tags

There is a lot of ambiguity when it comes to applying location and background tags, so I thought I would try to come up with a list of potential guidelines and ideas for streamlining things. These are just what sound right to me, but I'm making this forum post to get feedback on them. They are mostly in alphabetical order, and I've numbered every individual item in this giant list, to make it easier to go through and give yay or nay responses by number. Any that reach a consensus, I'll either add it to the proper wiki page for guidelines, or add it to a giant BUR in the case of deprecate/nuke/tag creation suggestions.

This post is broken into 3 sections:

• General tag guidelines: These are broad concepts related to applying background and location tags. Items in this section which reach consensus would be added to the background tag group wiki page.
• Individual tags: These are guidelines and streamlining suggestions related to individual tags.
• Tag creation suggestions: These are my suggestions for creating a few new tags to help fill in the gaps in what is currently available for tagging backgrounds and locations.

General tag guidelines

• All backgrounds
• (#1) Portion of the image: A background can be tagged even if it takes up a very small portion of the image, such as post #8729710 being tagged white_background.
• (#2) Characters & prominent scene elements: When an image contains an object which takes up a large area of the scene behind a character (most commonly a piece of furniture), it should be treated as part of the subject of the scene, not as part of the background. For example post #8727057 should be given the tag black_background, not purple_background. However, if this were a closeup shot, where the purple of the couch was all that was visible behind the character, then purple_background would make sense.

• Single color backgrounds
• (#3) Strictness: Unlike simple_background, these do not need to be a completely flat color, just primarily that color, or shades of it.

• Object backgrounds (floral background, food-themed background, etc)
• (#4) Both patterned and non-patterned: All object-centric background tags should encompass both patterned styled and non patterned styled backgrounds featuring that object. Example: both post #8726013 and post #8712599 can receive the floral_background tag (floral patterned vs singular large flower).
• (#5) Strictness: The requirements to receive an object background tag should be very low, though the object should be prominently featured. Floral example: even though post #8687653 only features a few scattered flower symbols in the background, they are prominent enough for the post to have the floral_background tag applied.
• (#6) Multi-object backgrounds: As long as the objects are prominently featured, posts can be given multiple background tags. Example: post #8693278 should be given both floral_background and heart_background.
• (#7) Foreground vs background: Images which feature an object in the foreground around a character, should be allowed to use the object_background tag for that object, since it is still filling the function of a background. For example: post #7367406 could still receive the food-themed background tag, despite the food technically being in the foreground.

Individual tags

• Abstract background
• (#8) Wiki page rewording: "A background which have no clear physical location/setting, and whose background is in some way chaotic in terms of color or shapes used; often randomly generated, such as through use of noise textures."

• Colored_with_greyscale_background
• (#9) Nuke: Merge into monochrome background.

• Comic & Collage
• (#10) Tagging backgrounds: Images which contain multiple sub-images, such as comics and collages, should have none of their backgrounds tagged, rather than all of them tagged. Tagging all of them muddies search results. If an image/comic has a predominant background type throughout its panels, then it can be tagged.
• (#11) Collages with shared background: Images such as post #8586744 where multiple drawings are done on the same shared canvas, should always have their background tagged (white_background, in this case).
• (#12) Tagging indoors/outdoors: Same rules as with tagging backgrounds, only when a comic or collage is set predominantly indoors or outdoors, should it be given one of these tags.

• Cream background
• (#13) Deprecate: Treat it like tan/beige/light_brown_background were, replacing it with orange/brown/grey background tags.

• Dark background & bright background
• (#14) Strictness: The requirements for these tags should be even looser than for color backgrounds, otherwise there is too much overlap between black_background / dark_background, and white_background / bright background.

• Gradient background
• (#15) Color tagging: When a gradient is tagged, the colors comprising it should only be tagged in two cases: 1) When a single color is predominant in the gradient, such as post #8781136, which should be tagged orange_background and gradient_background, but not white_background. And 2) When the gradient is between 2 shades of the same color, such as post #8748494 (light grey -> dark grey) in which case grey_background should be added.
• (#16) Gradient types: There are various ways to create a gradient between background colors (such as dithering, halftones, and paint blending), and all of them can be given this tag.
• (#47) Gradients of more than two colors can be tagged with gradient_background, such as rainbow gradient backgrounds.
• (#48) Two color gradients should be given the two-tone_background tag in addition to the gradient_background tag, assuming both background colors are prominent.

• Indoors / Outdoors
• (#17) Level of certainty: some amount of assumption should be allowed with these tags. Such as being able to assume that if a character is on a bed, they are indoors, even if interior walls can't be seen.
• (#18) Scene setting, not character location: This tag should be used to indicate where the bulk of a scene is located, rather than where the viewer/"camera" is located, or where a character might technically be. For example, if a scene is entirely taking place indoors, but is being viewed from outside a window, it would be tagged indoors. and likewise if a scene is taking place indoors, but a character is stepping out a doorway leading outdoors, the post should still be tagged indoors. Example: post #8778842 should be considered indoors.

• Interior
• (#19) Deprecate: This tag should be deprecated, as it has the same utility as the search "indoors or *_interior".

• Monochrome background
• (#20) Locations only: Non-location images such as post #8562076 should receive the two-tone_background tag rather than the monochrome background tag.
• (#21) Strictness / highlight colors: This tag should only be applied to images where the vast majority (99%+) of the background is monochrome. However, a small amount of color as an attention grabbing highlight should be allowed. For example, the red flowers in post #7512248 should not disqualify this post from monochrome_background, though it is right on the line of allowability.

• Patterned background (and individual pattern backgrounds)
• (#22) Predominant pattern: Like color tags, pattern tags can still be applied to images whose backgrounds aren't 100% that pattern, but the pattern should at least be predominant.

• Simple background
• (#23) Strictness: Only for flat colors, transparent, or extremely slight gradients. If any background tag besides these 3 could be applied to an image, it doesn't fit in simple_background.
• (#24) Partially rendered scenes: An image with a portion of the foreground rendered around the subject such as post #7999757, can be given this tag. While images which are nearly completely rendered aside from the edges (post #8556663) should not be given this tag. Both example images could be given the white_background tag.

• Space
• (#25) Tagging indoors: The indoors tag should only be applied in rare situations, mostly for images featuring living quarters on spacecraft. Spacecraft interior should be applied to these as well.
• (#26) Tagging outdoors: Images featuring characters in space outside a space craft should not be tagged outdoors.

• Three-toned background
• (#27) Rename: Should be renamed to tri-tone_background.
• (#28) Strictness: Same as two-tone_background, this is a tag for backgrounds which are comprised of three flat or nearly completely flat colors.

• Two-tone background
• (#29) Flat colors: Only backgrounds comprised of two flat colors (or very nearly flat, some very subtle patterning would be allowed) should be given this tag (similar criteria to simple_background).
• (#30) Solid blocks of color not required: Backgrounds do not need to be comprised of two solid blocks of color (such as post #8703540) in order to receive this tag. Images with patterned backgrounds, where the two colors take up a comparable amount of real estate (such as post #8687203) can be given this tag. However, an image like post #8680042 which is technically two-tone, should definitely not receive the two-tone_background tag.
• (#31) No predominant background colors: Images with a predominant color, with a small amount of a second color, such as post #8666783, should not be given this tag. the only background tags this example image should be given are red_background, patterned_background, and floral_background.
• (#32) Thick borders: Images with very thick borders such as post #8682423 can be given this tag, though the border color should not be tagged as a background color. I think a good background/border tag list for this image would be: blue_background, two-tone_background, border, white_border (no white_background tag). Vs an image like post #8683509, which should not be given a border tag, and should only be given the two-tone_background tag + the two background color tags (tag list: blue_background, grey_background, two-tone_background). I think a good rule of thumb is that if a "border" comprises more than 50% of the image's background, it's part of the background, and isn't a border.
• (#33) Collage: Collage images should not be given this tag, if the image is comprised of two sub-images, each with their own background color, which together make the overall image's background appear to be two-tone.

• Triangle background
• (#34) Patterns only: Should only be for triangle pattern backgrounds such as post #8417920, not cutout backgrounds such as post #8438700.
• (#35) Nuke triangular_tiling_background: merge it into triangle_background, they are too similar.

• Underwater
• (#36) Tagging outdoors: If fish or plants are visible, the outdoors tag should be applied.
• (#37) Tagging indoors: It is rare that the indoors tag can be confidently applied to an underwater image, since even something like tiles in the background could be a part of an outdoor pool. In order to receive the indoors tag, the image would probably need to be from an odd angle which shows walls of the room the pool is in, or a ceiling in the background.

• White background
• (#38) Shadows: when it is apparent that a background is intended to appear white, but a shadow is cast on a portion of it, it should be tagged white_background, not grey_background, even though grey would technically be the hex color of those pixels.

Tag creation pitches

• (#39) Fabric_background (fav group): Primarily useful for images where a character is on a bed, with the fabric behind them comprising the entire background. These images are difficult to give either a location tag such as indoors, since all that is visible is fabric, and also difficult to give any of the current *_background tags, unless the fabric is a solid color.

• (#40) Fill_the_frame (fav group): I pulled the name for this tag from photography terminology. For images in which the subject takes up the entire frame, leaving nothing showing behind them. An image which fits into this tag should not fit into any *_background tag, or location tag, since no background or location should be visible.

• (#41) In_threshold (fav group): For images where a character is neither quite inside, nor quite outside. Applicable to windows, doorways, vents, holes in walls, etc.

• *_Interior tags: There should be a similar cohesiveness between *_interior location tags, as there is between *_background tags, making it easy to search for all of them or none of them at once. There are a few that I think are lacking currently:
• (#42) Open-air_interior (fav group): For locations without proper walls, making them neither indoors nor outdoors. Gazebos, canopy tents, pavilions, are common examples of this kind of structure.
• (#43) Pool_interior (fav group):
• (#44) Tunnel_interior (fav group): For images like post #6425637, which is set inside a tunnel. While the existing tunnel tag would be both for images set inside a tunnel, and images which just feature a tunnel in the setting, such as post #8605389.

• (#45) Oval_border: Basically the same as round border, but oblong. Applies to both horizontally and vertically oriented ovals.
• (#46) Oval image and oval background should both be nuked and merged into this tag.

• I disagree with point 4-7 and think that post #8687653 does not have nearly enough flowers to count. I would tag that egasumi and plum blossoms but not any specific background tags. post #8470196 would be my example of a lighter floral-print and post #8476313 the heavier end of the spectrum. I would not tag post #7367406 as a food-themed background as they are physical objects in the image and not a background detail. post #8693278 would not be floral or heart background but it would be flower and heart they aren't background prints.

• Point 13 I agree with wholeheartedly and think it should be tagged white, grey, or brown accordingly.

• Point 19 agree we have more specific tags like train_interior or cockpit.

• Point 27 and 28. I think three-toned_background is bad and should be replaced with striped_background for most of the posts in the tag. There's also stuff like post #5548992 and post #7906801 which are gradients and borders. Seems like a bad poorly defined tag at the moment.

• Point 32. I disagree with post #8682423 being two-tone this is just a border and does not have the same compositional style as other images in the tag.

• Point 36. I've discussed this before with someone and we agreed that outdoors + underwater is redundant unless there is actually a structure in the image someone could be "outdoors" of like post #2676249 or post #2792584. I don't think there's a formal rule but I think this should be the standard of tagging it.

• Point 39, a lot of these are currently in bed sheets so maybe sheet_background would be a clearer name? Fabric background makes me think of something with a denim print. I like the idea of this one though and think it would be a good tag.

• Point 40, I think most of this this is just close-up honestly. Seems largely redundant.

• Point 46 I support either Oval_border or merging them all into round_background. Oval_image and background both seem like redundant tags.

In response to zetsubousensei:

I think your takes on points 4, 5, 7, 32, 36 are very fair critiques.

#6 I do think that backgrounds which very prominently feature multiple objects should be able to have multiple object background tags though, such as post #8573812 having both floral_background and food-themed_background.

#27 & 28 This one is definitely iffy, I would probably need to cook up a fav group which shows tri-tone_background is needed, which would probably result in it being clear that it's not needed.

#39 "Sheet_background" is a better tag than fabric_background, definitely.

#40 I could have done a better job with that fav group, here are some more curated posts that I think show what I mean better, which I don't think are close-up: post #8606093, post #8739498, post #8703431. And in my view of it, the majority of close-up images don't fit fill_the_frame. But I definitely would be fine with this tag idea not going through, it's use case is fairly rare.

i'm having a little trouble understanding #15.

something like post #7036681 has two points in its gradient, red and blue. under these new rulings, would you no longer be able to tag it as red background and blue background?

sabisabi said:

i'm having a little trouble understanding #15.

Thanks for pointing out my unclear writing there, I redid the gradient section, and added examples.

something like post #7036681 has two points in its gradient, red and blue. under these new rulings, would you no longer be able to tag it as red background and blue background?

Right, that post wouldn't have any background color tags on it, if people like guideline #15, and want to make it official. But if people don't think it should work like that, then it shouldn't.

I mostly agree with zetsubousensei's critique, but wanted your thoughts with regard to a particular comic type for 10-12, which I will use post #8756491 as an example of. For these comics, you have a full illustration next to a comic, which can in turn be similar to having a bunch of inset images. For these, I would suggest that you could/should ignore the comic/insets and tag the primary illustration's background, ignoring that those other elements might not have the same type of background. For example, an illustration of two characters kissing with a floral or heart background surrounded by insets of other characters reacting with non-matching backgrounds, or a full illustration of a character set against a gradient background next to a 4koma where the background are all white getting the gradient background tag.

Thoughts?

definitelysleeping said:

but wanted your thoughts with regard to a particular comic type for 10-12, which I will use post #8756491 as an example of. For these comics, you have a full illustration next to a comic, which can in turn be similar to having a bunch of inset images.

or a full illustration of a character set against a gradient background next to a 4koma where the background are all white getting the gradient background tag.

Personally, I think it comes down to mostly what portion of the image the small panels take up. I would say that the panels in post #8756491 are too big to give it a background tag.

two characters kissing with a floral or heart background surrounded by insets of other characters reacting with non-matching backgrounds

The way that I'm imagining this, I do actually think that background tags would work, and it might even fall under collage background as well.

New tag proposal, related to item #1 from the list, and (probably) replacing my #40 fill_the_frame idea.

I think a tag called sliver_of_background (fav group) could be useful for posts with only a tiny amount of the background showing, but still technically having a background.