Danbooru

About "(pokemon)_(classic)" and "(pokemon)_(remake)"

Posted under Tags

Danielx21

EDIT - Previous discussion title:
"Tag suggestion: replace "(pokemon)_(classic)" and "(pokemon)_(remake)" by actual game abbreviations"

Previous discussion: topic #7991 (2011)

I suggest renaming a few tags as explained below. Let me know if this all sounds right or if you would change anything. If this is accepted, I'll create the bulk edit and update the wikis.

The specific suggestions are these:

1- Removing "(pokemon)_(classic)" and "(pokemon)_(remake)" from all the Pokémon human character tags.
2- Replacing the text removed above by actual game titles, like "(pokemon_frlg)" or "(pokemon_oras)" as applicable.
3- Implying character variation tags to the main character tags whenever possible. Example: implying both haruka_(pokemon_oras) and haruka_(pokemon_emerald) to haruka_(pokemon).

Reasons:
1- Shorter tags.
2- Fewer parentheses to type.
3- Consistency. Other Pokémon character tags already mention the exact game title or abbreviation: haruka_(pokemon_emerald), yuuki_(pokemon_emerald), mizuki_(pokemon_sm), mizuki_(pokemon_usum), female_protagonist_(pokemon_go), etc.
4- Clarity. The word "remake" means different games depending on the character. In my opinion, it's best to mention the exact game right away. In particular, I really think it may not always be clear that "remake" often means ORAS instead of Emerald.

Disclaimer: I'm not sure we need all these character tags in the first place. For example, maybe delete matsuba_(pokemon)_(remake), because you can just search for matsuba_(pokemon) + pokemon_hgss. But as long as we have some of these tags, in my opinion the suggested names are an improvement.

Pokémon ORAS:

[protagonists]

[Aqua/Magma bosses]

[Aqua/Magma admins and underlings]

Pokémon RGBY/FRLG:

Maybe add these other aliases as well, because Red looks the same in certain games, including SSB where he is called "Pokémon Trainer":

Pokémon GSC/HGSS:

We only seem to have this HGSS gym leader with a few posts. It's severely underpopulated and could be just deleted. On the other hand, all 16 Gym Leaders from Kanto and Johto have HGSS designs, so populating all these 16 tags like this is still a possibility: kasumi_(pokemon_hgss), akane_(pokemon_hgss), etc.

Satoshi may be an exception:

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Danielx21

Hillside_Moose said:

This is my preferred solution, as it's simpler and requires less server bookkeeping, as the wall of text in the OP has demonstrated.

Deleting matsuba_(pokemon)_(remake) is fine by me. Should we delete all the ORAS-specific Aqua/Magma tags listed in the OP too? Maybe delete them as long as they are easily searchable by a simple character + copyright combination.

For example, delete kagari_(pokemon)_(remake) and instead search for kagari_(pokemon) pokemon_oras.

@Provence, @Hillside_Moose

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Danielx21

OK, I created this thread a few weeks ago.

So far I emptied matsuba_(pokemon)_(remake). As said before, this one was almost empty anyway.

To repeat, the rest of this project as discussed above is:

1- Empty all ORAS-specific Magma/Aqua tags. For example, get rid of homura_(pokemon)_(remake), team_aqua_grunt_(remake), etc.

Note: But I guess we should KEEP, don't delete the game-specific tags for protagonists and rivals, like red_(pokemon)_(remake), yuuki_(pokemon_emerald), mizuki_(pokemon_sm), mizuki_(pokemon_usum).

Reason: The rivals and protagonists are often randomly seen together in art and there are many pics of them. If I'm not mistaken, it is often not good enough to search just for things like red_(pokemon) pokemon_frlg (character+copyright) because other FRLG characters may appear. In post #1194824, Red from RGBY (more specifically, Pixiv Red) appears with Green and Blue/Leaf from FRLG.

Naturally, yuuki_(pokemon_emerald) and haruka_(pokemon_emerald) simply can't be searched using copyright tags at all, because we don't have a specific pokemon_emerald tag, it redirects to pokemon_rse.

2- Rename a few tags: haruka_(pokemon)_(remake) -> haruka_(pokemon_oras), gold_(pokemon)_(classic) -> gold_(pokemon_gsc), etc.

3- Create a few character implications like haruka_(pokemon_oras) -> haruka_(pokemon).

May I do the step 1 and empty all the ORAS-specific Magma/Aqua character tags now?

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user 525419

Hillside_Moose said:

I guess.

Nice participation.

To be honest, if the character looks different then we should keep the qualifier. But that qualifier shouldn't be *_(remake) because that's ambigous if we get more remakes.
An oras qualifier would be good, like haruka_(pokemon)_(oras) or just haruka_(oras).

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user 525419

Hillside_Moose said:

What more do you want me to say? I still think we're better off using copy+char, despite the fringe cases, but Danielx21's going to push through anyway.

It feels like you are here for just writing some one-liners but aren't really part of the conversation.
And I have to say that's pretty frustrating seeing this when a lot of stuff that really needs treatment (like BURs) seems to go unnoticed for months. It's a sign of depleted patience.

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Danielx21

Hillside_Moose said:

What more do you want me to say? I still think we're better off using copy+char, despite the tiny fringe cases, but Danielx21's going to push through anyway.

No, wait. I even waited a few weeks and asked for the opinion of other people. I'm fine with waiting and talking about it and changing the ideas as needed. "push through anyway" sounds like I'm going to ignore everyone and do things my way, which I don't intend to.

See, I even changed the proposal mid-conversation based on your opinion (and also Provence's opinion, which may have changed or may need further clarification): the 1st idea at the top was renaming all ORAS characters, but then you said copy+char is better and I thought: sure, let's go with that.

But then I've been thinking the players and rivals should be exceptions. Hillside Moose, I guess you don't want that? Are you saying you would rather delete ALL cases including red_(pokemon)_(classic), red_(pokemon)_(remake), haruka_(pokemon)_(remake), etc.?

(Please note again, yuuki_(pokemon_emerald) and haruka_(pokemon_emerald) are special cases, they can't be deleted and replaced by copy+char tags as stated above.)

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Danielx21

Danielx21 said:

Deleting matsuba_(pokemon)_(remake) is fine by me. Should we delete all the ORAS-specific Aqua/Magma tags listed in the OP too? Maybe delete them as long as they are easily searchable by a simple character + copyright combination.

For example, delete kagari_(pokemon)_(remake) and instead search for kagari_(pokemon) pokemon_oras.

@Provence, @Hillside_Moose

Provence said:

I completely agree with that.
We have cop. tags so we should use them.

Provence said:

To be honest, if the character looks different then we should keep the qualifier.

Provence: Sorry, but I believe you sent mixed answers above. It seems you both agreed and later disagreed with deleting character tags with qualifiers.

You see, there are too many characters that look different in separate games, and that number keeps increasing. The Gym Leaders are included. We have a little more than zero Gym Leader tags with qualifiers, but that's an arbitrary situation. The others could have been created.

Two main questions:

A- Would you think it's a good idea to create tags for all Gym Leaders that look different? (a few examples below)

B- I think the Gym Leaders and Aqua/Magma characters should be treated consistently. In my opinion, it seems strange having a lot of tags with qualifiers for Aqua/Magma characters and not any for Gym Leaders. This would probably mean either deleting all the Aqua/Magma tags with qualifiers, or creating all the Gym Leaders tags with qualifiers. Does that seem right to you?

Here are a few possible Gym Leader tags. I'm not saying we should create them, I'm just saying that if we consistently want tags for all Pokémon characters that look different, naturally they would be included.

Takeshi:

Kasumi:

Kamitsure:

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Hillside Moose

Danielx21 said:

But then I've been thinking the players and rivals should be exceptions. Hillside Moose, I guess you don't want that? Are you saying you would rather delete ALL cases including red_(pokemon)_(classic), red_(pokemon)_(remake), haruka_(pokemon)_(remake), etc.?

(Please note again, yuuki_(pokemon_emerald) and haruka_(pokemon_emerald) are special cases, they can't be deleted and replaced by copy+char tags as stated above.)

I suppose Red can be an exception because his redesign has some significant differences from the original '90s art. Haruka and others from ORAS, less so; it's literally a hair ribbon instead of a bandanna.

I really don't want people getting into the habit of creating specific character tags for specific games, when it's literally the same person, because that adds some serious tag bloat that's wholly avoidable when the individual game tags alread exist.

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Danielx21

Hillside_Moose said:

I suppose Red can be an exception because his redesign has some significant differences from the original '90s art. Haruka and others from ORAS, less so; it's literally a hair ribbon instead of a bandanna.

I really don't want people getting into the habit of creating specific character tags for specific games, when it's literally the same person, because that adds some serious tag bloat that's wholly avoidable when the individual game tags alread exist.

@Hillside_Moose: OK, that makes sense to me. I agree with you, Haruka's difference between RSE and ORAS is just that, plus a few subtle details in her clothes. I would add, in principle, if Haruka is naked or using a completely different costume, there's probably no way of distinguishing the games.

I was waiting to see if Provence had something to add, but apparently they were blocked for 1 year and their name changed to user 525419, for some reason.

For now, I just did this: I emptied all Aqua/Magma character tags with qualifiers. This means the 8 tags listed below. I believe this is consistent with what you wanted.

These 8 deleted remake tags don't have any wikis. They are not linked anywhere as far as I see. (I looked in the character pages, list of pokemon characters, pokemon oras, team magma, and team aqua.)

I'll do the same to Haruka and Yuuki later, if it's alright.

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Danielx21

Just a comment. I'm happy to get rid of some game-specific character tags as a result of this discussion.

The previous situation was a bit weird because we had haruka (pokemon) (remake) for ORAS, but didn't have something like haruka (pokemon) (classic) for RSE. It was inconsistent. The only consistent choices were: 1- either create a lot of tags, basically one for each game/character combination, or 2- don't.

I'm also happy to get rid of these two cosplay tags: haruka (pokemon) (remake) (cosplay) and yuuki (pokemon) (remake) (cosplay). They were also inconsistent in that sometimes they were used together with the normal cosplay tags -- haruka (pokemon) (cosplay) and yuuki (pokemon) (cosplay) -- in the same post, sometimes they weren't. It was also an avoidable excess of parentheses per tag, in my opinion.

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Danielx21

mass update red_(pokemon)_(classic) -> red_(pokemon_rgby)
mass update red_(pokemon)_(remake) -> red_(pokemon_frlg)
remove implication red_(pokemon)_(classic) -> red_(pokemon)
remove implication red_(pokemon)_(remake) -> red_(pokemon)
create implication red_(pokemon_rgby) -> red_(pokemon)
create implication red_(pokemon_frlg) -> red_(pokemon)

Link to request

Hillside_Moose said:

I suppose Red can be an exception because his redesign has some significant differences from the original '90s art. Haruka and others from ORAS, less so; it's literally a hair ribbon instead of a bandanna.

Alright, I agree that keeping separate tags for Red from RGBY and FRLG as an exception makes sense for the reason you said.

If that's the case, then please rename the Classic/Remake versions of Red as originally suggested in the OP.

This removes "(pokemon)_(classic)" and "(pokemon)_(remake)" and replaces it with actual game names: "(pokemon_rgby)" and "(pokemon_frlg)".

EDIT: The bulk update request #1668 (forum #146776) has been approved by @Hillside_Moose.

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