WakuWaku said:
If you want to mass eliminate a bunch of tags that's a discussion for a different thread.
Well, it is related to this: Do we even want this new Altera tag?
Posted under Tags
Chiera said:
Well, it is related to this: Do we even want this new Altera tag?
Yes. We've been tagging variants like this for years, and discussed for months before moving to the (all) tags. If you want to have another discussion on how we tag Fate that's fine, but we should be consistent with tagging practices until we've decided on a change.
WakuWaku said:
Yes. We've been tagging variants like this for years, and discussed for months before moving to the (all) tags. If you want to have another discussion on how we tag Fate that's fine, but we should be consistent with tagging practices until we've decided on a change.
We don't have a toosaka_rin_(all) or a matou_sakura_(all) or a waver_velvet_(all) or a cu_chulainn_(all). We don't have (all) tags for Nitocris, Minamoto no Raikou, Sakata Kintoki, Kiyohime or Berserker of Black.
There's also no (all) tags for Marie Antoniette, Saint Martha, Oda Nobunaga, Ishtar (which in turn is a subset of Toosaka Rin's tag), Anne Bonny, or Mary Read.
And all of the above have several times (hundreds of times in certain cases, in fact) more pictures in their alternate costumes than Altera in her santa form.
You can't be consistent with a standard that does not exist. All the (all) tags in the past have been attempts to disentangle messes consisting of several character tags with multiple hundred tags each. There is absolutely no reason to do the same here for a tag that is not even in the double digits.
nonamethanks said:
We don't have a toosaka_rin_(all) or a matou_sakura_(all) or a waver_velvet_(all) or a cu_chulainn_(all). We don't have (all) tags for Nitocris, Minamoto no Raikou, Sakata Kintoki, Kiyohime or Berserker of Black.
There's also no (all) tags for Marie Antoniette, Saint Martha, Oda Nobunaga, Ishtar (which in turn is a subset of Toosaka Rin's tag), Anne Bonny, or Mary Read.
And all of the above have several times (hundreds of times in certain cases, in fact) more pictures in their alternate costumes than Altera in her santa form.You can't be consistent with a standard that does not exist. All the (all) tags in the past have been attempts to disentangle messes consisting of several character tags with multiple hundred tags each. There is absolutely no reason to do the same here for a tag that is not even in the double digits.
Mordred has an (all) tag with only two character tags.
WakuWaku said:
Mordred has an (all) tag with only two character tags.
One of them having +200 tags. altera the santa has four. And you want to create a new umbrella tag and two implications just for it.
nonamethanks said:
One of them having +200 tags. altera the santa has four. And you want to create a new umbrella tag and two implications just for it.
Yes. Because to repeat myself, if we're doing (all) tags for Fate we should use them consistently. Having them for some and not for others is just going to increase the confusion around them. The idea of tagging a character one way until they hit a certain number and then completely changing how they're tagged is way more complicated that simple using (all) from the start.
There's been enough pushback in this thread that this BUR will most likely not be approved, but I could always be wrong.
Continuing to argue on past this point would most likely be an exercise in futility. In truth, both sides are pretty charged up to really give any ground. I'd say let's see if anyone other than the current contributors of this thread have anything to say. Maybe more of a concensus can then be gathered, instead of the same group of people continuing to argue back and forth.
WakuWaku said:
if we're doing (all) tags for Fate
As it was already said, only a handful were. Others instead were implied to their main costumes, like Berserker of Black, for which the swimsuit was parented to the normal version. I don't know why you're trying to push that there is a consistent way in which the tags have been implied so far, because there isn't, even if we consider only the last two months.
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nonamethanks said:
As it was already said, only a handful were. Others instead were implied to their main costumes, like Berserker of Black, for which the swimsuit was parented to the normal version. I don't know why you're trying to push that there is a consistent way in which the tags have been implied so far, because there isn't, even if we consider only the last two months.
This is actually completely untrue. frankenstein's_monster_(swimsuit_saber)_(fate) is not implied to anything. As far as I can tell not a single Servant has been parented to the normal version since Artoria was moved to an (all) tag.
WakuWaku said:
This is actually completely untrue. frankenstein's_monster_(swimsuit_saber)_(fate) is not implied to anything. As far as I can tell not a single Servant has been parented to the normal version since Artoria was moved to an (all) tag.
Huh. It seems I was completely wrong on that point. You're right, I got it mixed up with jack_the_ripper_(fate/apocrypha) (which has no other tag but got aliased recently). I apologize for that.
Regardless of my wrong point, the whole argument stems from the fact that it feels useless to overly complicate tags for characters with low post count, especially to accomodate the presence of seasonal costumes that will only get a handful of pictures. But I'll follow BE's advice and let someone else chime in from now on, as this is only going to end up running in circles like in the main Fate discussion thread otherwise.
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I'm of the same opinion as nonamethanks, in that it's kind of pointless at this stage to complicate things with an extra chartag and two implications for a character that has 500 pictures in over 2 years and an alternate costume that likely will not get much attention beyond this season.
If you really want a new tag, then I suggest to rename Altera_the_santa to Altera_(santa)_(fate) or something like this, then use Altera*(fate) to have an equivalent to a non-existent altera_(fate)_(all) (as we can emulate mordred_(fate)_(all) with mordred*(fate)).
nonamethanks said:
Because useless implications and aliases make the site slower?
Because it makes searching by number of chartags pointless?
Because rather than trying to fix the fate mess we're making it ridiculously even more complex, to the point where there's posts that have three chartags for a single character (post #2950689, post #2949227)?
Aren't these problems solved this way ?
Unbreakable said:
I also feel like it's overkill to create an (all) tag for just two character tags, wait until there is at least 5 or something imo.
No. Because when these two characters receive thousands of images, who's going to clean up the mess and redo the tags? It's better to have standards like this, rather than doing it when it's too late. There are still hundreds of images for Saber (and her different forms), Jeanne and Jeanne Alter with old tags that hasn't been removed yet.
nonamethanks said:
We don't have a toosaka_rin_(all) or a matou_sakura_(all) or a waver_velvet_(all) or a cu_chulainn_(all). We don't have (all) tags for Nitocris, Minamoto no Raikou, Sakata Kintoki, Kiyohime or Berserker of Black.
There's also no (all) tags for Marie Antoniette, Saint Martha, Oda Nobunaga, Ishtar (which in turn is a subset of Toosaka Rin's tag), Anne Bonny, or Mary Read.
And all of the above have several times (hundreds of times in certain cases, in fact) more pictures in their alternate costumes than Altera in her santa form.You can't be consistent with a standard that does not exist. All the (all) tags in the past have been attempts to disentangle messes consisting of several character tags with multiple hundred tags each. There is absolutely no reason to do the same here for a tag that is not even in the double digits.
Well, if you ask me, and others, they'll most likely agree that we need an umbrella tag for all those characters you listed. I certainly don't want to look at toosaka_rin and see ereshkigal_(fate/grand_order) (example).
The bigger mess as far as Fate is concerned is to have one chartag for each single class a character shows up regardless of anything else, when most of the time they're not different characters, they're the same character summoned as a different class, and with a slight costume variation.
For example, Cú Caster during the first singularity of FGO saying he'd prefer being summoned as a lancer which clearly points in that direction. There's little to no change in personality in most cases, unlike for example with Jeanne and Jeanne Alter.
But I digress, this has very little to do with Altera anymore.
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