I've been thinking lately it would be nice to have a chat for general Danbooru discussion. So I made one: https://discord.gg/8SAF59U. If you're bored during downbooru right now, come check it out. Also check out 0xlynn's server: topic #13923.
post #1234: Link a post.
forum #1234: Link a forum post.
issue #1234: Link to an issue on Github.
[[tag]]: Link a wiki.
/help <command>: Show help.
/hi: Say hi to Fumimi!
/posts <tags>: Search for posts.
/iqdb <url>: Search IQDB for similar posts.
/comments <tags>: List latest comments.
/forum <text>: List latest forum posts.
/random <tags>: Show a random post.
/stats tags created by <user>: Show all tags created by a user.
/stats gentags created by <user>: Show general tags created by a user.
/stats arttags created by <user>: Show artist tags created by a user.
/stats chartags created by <user>: Show character tags created by a user.
/stats copytags created by <user>: Show copyright tags created by a user.
/stats longest tags: List longest tags on Danbooru.
/top uploaders in last <day|week|month>: List top uploaders over the last day/week/month.
EDIT:
2017-06-21: Added fumimi command list and updated invite link to point to #general instead of #nsfw. Oops.
Would be cool to have this as a sticky, even as it may be 'unofficial'. I think having a general lounge for discussion would be great for killing time in an atmosphere where you don't have to save too much face.
I've been thinking lately it would be nice to have a chat for general Danbooru discussion. So I made one: https://discord.gg/QeqHZRU. If you're bored during downbooru right now, come check it out. Also check out 0xlynn's server: topic #13923.
I've also been thinking about a replacement for the long dead Danbooru IRC channel. Last year I created an unofficial Matrix room/channel with Riot on #danbooru:matrix.org (matrix.org is the home server of the developers) to coordinate breast tagging work (pinging @Nitrogen09 ^^).
What is Riot? Riot is free and open source just like the Danbooru software. It's also secure (uses almost the same encryption technique like Signal and WhatsApp -> called OLM), extensible and feature rich. Riot is merely one of many open source clients build on top of Matrix. They're all interoperable, of course. Riot is available as web client, Android client and iOS client. The source code is also on GitHub. A user can create an account over here. There is no need to enter an email address. That's completely optional! Federation at its best. ^^
What is Matrix? Matrix is basically an "open standard for interoperable, decentralized, real-time communication, providing simple HTTP APIs and open source reference implementations for securely distributing and persisting JSON over an open federation of servers". A FAQ is available here (especially the Matrix vs IRC part might be interesting).
Matrix features:
Simple pragmatic RESTful HTTP/JSON APIs
Open specification of the Matrix standard
Create and manage fully distributed (eventually consistent) conversations with no single points of control or failure
Send and receive extensible messages with optional end-to-end encryption (based on the Double Ratchet Algorithm popularised by Signal)
Real-time synchronised history and state across all clients
Supports group chats with hundreds of devices via the new Megolm shared ratchet, with either perfect forward secrecy or the ability to decrypt conversation history on new devices.
Use existing 3rd party IDs (e.g. email, phone numbers, Facebook) to authenticate, identify and discover users
Trusted federation of identity servers, tracking public keys and 3rd party ID mappings
Independent implementation released under the Apache License
What I don't like about Discord is the fact that a user is forced to provide an email address for registration. The service is also missing end-to-end encryption (see Discord feedback forum). Furthermore, the software/infrastructure is proprietary and in full control of Hammer & Chisel (company). This is a privacy nightmare. As an open source software developer and privacy advocate, it's pretty hard to support such an approach.
Don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to spoil the party by dividing the community or bad-mouthing Discord. I just wanted to let you know that there are better alternatives IMO.
Discord's recently started banning people for sharing loli/shota art. That might make it unsuitable for conversation about Danbooru if there's a need to discuss tagging anything that they would find unsavory.
Sweet, now I can chat with you guys more frequently and of course, less formal.
7HS said:
Discord's recently started banning people for sharing loli/shota art. That might make it unsuitable for conversation about Danbooru if there's a need to discuss tagging anything that they would find unsavory.
We do have "How do I tag this?" thread, so rather than posting the direct link into the image, it's better to post it first on the said thread and link it into Discord.
If you join the Discord server, do you have to change your nickname to your Danbooru username? Asking mainly because I'm on several Discord channels and I'd like to keep my Danbooru account separate from everything else for obvious reasons but at the same time I feel like it could come in handy to join.
Perhaps append an update to the title - "Useful threads index - Updated: Discord server" for a few weeks?
Done.
7HS said:
Discord's recently started banning people for sharing loli/shota art. That might make it unsuitable for conversation about Danbooru if there's a need to discuss tagging anything that they would find unsavory.
For the time being, I'll just say don't post loli or shota. We can always move to something else if need be. As much as I would like to go with something that's non-proprietary and that has better privacy, as reiyasona brought up, for the purposes of building a community it's important to stick with something that's easy to adopt.
As much as I would like to go with something that's non-proprietary and that has better privacy, as reiyasona brought up, for the purposes of building a community it's important to stick with something that's easy to adopt.
I agree. Something like Pawoo was possible because the Pixiv userbase was already big to begin with.
Guess I'll go ahead and mention that the IRC channel is active, at least myself, @cyberwire and @qpax are there generally 24/7. irc.rizon.net #danbooru
Considering the recent Discord-only discussion about the nude_filter tag that Mikaeri mentioned in the wiki requests thread, I’d like to ask you guys to not decide anything on Discord by yourselves, disconnected from the forum. Sure, some instant messenger or chat can be more productive because it moves faster, but not everyone uses Discord and not everyone is online at just the right time to take part in the discussion. It would be better if you posted the results of your discussions on the forum to give other users the chance to voice their opinions. And as Mikaeri said, I did bring up some valid points that apparently nobody thought of before trimming the nude_filter wiki.
Thanks to Mikaeri for at least bringing it up in the wiki requests thread instead of simply editing the wiki article without telling anyone else.
DeusExCalamus said:
Guess I'll go ahead and mention that the IRC channel is active, at least myself, @cyberwire and @qpax are there generally 24/7. irc.rizon.net #danbooru
Yay, non-proprietary communication channels that are almost dead! :D Gonna drop by there sometime soon.
Most Danbooru users only set foot in the forum when the site breaks (the api limit bug, for example). We've set a precedent where "consensus" means "a handful of builders plus a mod or admin have signed off on it." So a small number of power users control the direction of the site with little input from the larger userbase, which doesn't seem to care enough about the decisions being made to get involved.
I think Discord is another step in this direction. The barrier of entry is higher, because instead of just clicking on the "Forum" link, a user has to install and configure a separate program before they can join the discussion.
Also, there's less of a "paper" trail: it's easy to search for and link old forum discussions when trying to figure out why things work a certain way, but if the decision was made during a chat, you just have to hope that someone saved chat logs and will copy/paste it for you.
I hope that builders will open up forum threads before making large modifications to the site, but the worst-case-scenario possibility of the future formation of a cabal that holds unrecorded discussions with almost no community input on a different site about how to run Danbooru has me kind of uneasy
I think Discord is another step in this direction. The barrier of entry is higher, because instead of just clicking on the "Forum" link, a user has to install and configure a separate program before they can join the discussion.
Install? Configure? Fairly sure most people just connect to Discord via the browser. At least, I do since I don't want to bloat my software any more than I need to.
I don't think the status quo of informal forum consensus is a problem. It matches the wiki-style nature of the site where anyone can technically make most changes, and there's enough history that really bad decisions can be reversed. The forum is easy enough to get to so I think those who don't participate mostly just don't care enough, and that's fine. The people who put in the time and effort make the decisions, and they're usually in the best position to do so. That's normal and unavoidable, and the discussions are easily visible to everybody so it's not a hidden cabal. If we had more formal procedure for establishing consensus we'd never be able to change anything. It's already easy enough to give up on things that aren't going anywhere.
But I share the concern about moving decision-making to Discord. It's a big drop in transparency and accessibility compared to the forum.
Personally, my schedule currently wouldn't allow me to idle on Discord regularly, though it does allow me to check Danbooru on a semi-regular basis and sometimes spend hours at a time here. I'm moderately invested in the site (previously I was able to be much more active and may someday again) and occasionally participate in forum discussions, but I probably wouldn't participate at all on Discord. I don't know how many people are in a similar position - it may be that the majority of our population is divided between apathetic lurkers and major contributors who are willing to make the site a focus of their life. But even so, lower visibility and higher barrier to the discussion area would make it harder for anyone new to enter the second category. Discussion history is also important, and Discord's history system is garbage, even if we were willing to trust our records to another party, which I don't like in the first place.
I don't think the status quo of informal forum consensus is a problem. It matches the wiki-style nature of the site where anyone can technically make most changes, and there's enough history that really bad decisions can be reversed. The forum is easy enough to get to so I think those who don't participate mostly just don't care enough, and that's fine. The people who put in the time and effort make the decisions, and they're usually in the best position to do so. That's normal and unavoidable, and the discussions are easily visible to everybody so it's not a hidden cabal. If we had more formal procedure for establishing consensus we'd never be able to change anything. It's already easy enough to give up on things that aren't going anywhere.
That's true for general tag gardening and wiki efforts, but some more integral site components like flag or upload notices have been made editable as well. My opinion is that before editing those, or any wiki from "about" category, or before retagging a lot of posts, an open forum discussion is absolutely necessary, even if just to see that nobody explicitly disagrees within a few days. I've already seen some decisions being group-thinked by a few builders through DMail exchange and somehow treated as a consensus. Of course it's fine to discuss and think of something outside the forum, but you should make sure to start a forum topic and relay all the arguments before changing anything significant, if only for historical purposes - otherwise the change might be reverted sometime in the future, if the user who made it is not around anymore to explain their reasoning.
