However, the issue at hand was a tag that only had a tagcount of 30. That's not big by any means and can be reverted at any problem.
You're blowing things out of proportion.
Stuff on Discord is linkable, stuff on Discord have a chatlog. Like or dislike it, but the Discord server is now a place where people are chatting and most technical stuff is resolved there as well. It won't even be discussed in the forums and let me tell you that I don't like every change. User promotions also go the Discord way most of the time because the admin is so available there.
You can bring it up, but the Discord server is now an official part of Danbooru.
Just to say that no link to a specific message on discord has ever worked for me. It'll take you to the right part of the right server, but your on your own trying to find the actual message.
Discord is a vastly inferior method to the forums for discussing anything that justifies input from more than 1 other person.
I agree that 30 posts is probably minor enough (so long as it's sensible) to not be a huge deal. I agree with others though that for any decision that does have a major impact on policy, there should be a forum thread to go with it. The forum is a much easier place to search for such things and there should be no need to try and search multiple places. That's even worse than our current system which is fairly disorganized with needing to search forum threads in the first place. I also find that even with chat history finding something specific in the Discord can be like searching for a needle in a haystack. The forum search usually gets you pretty close without a ton of effort.
Also, since not everyone is on Discord, not posting to the forum is going to cause issues with transparency where not everyone is aware what the newly agreed upon policy even is.
+1 on making a discussion thread on the forums even after discussion on Discord. Using only Discord would make things less ordered, and as @Shinjidude said, the search function is there, but it's hard to pinpoint the exact message/discussion most of the time.
You can bring it up, but the Discord server is now an official part of Danbooru.
I think that's a bit of a simplistic way to look at it, and it's a fair concern to have even if it was a small tag with 30 entries.
Seconding Shinjidude, Mysterious Uploader and so on, imo the Discord server is a good option to have when someone has a quick question that's not necessarily worth asking on the forums (eg. me asking "yo what's that tag away_we_go! even for?" before making an update request) or for faster paced back and forth discussions, but discussions about Danbooru shouldn't solely be taking place over there, and changes shouldn't be implemented from Discord discussions without at least some sort of notice on the forums, imo.
I think that's a bit of a simplistic way to look at it, and it's a fair concern to have even if it was a small tag with 30 entries.
To be fair, people (mostly builders) already nuke that kind of tags without even asking first anywhere, and if such a small tag is brought up in the forums 50% of the times it'll be ignored.
Seconding Shinjidude, Mysterious Uploader and so on, imo the Discord server is a good option to have when someone has a quick question that's not necessarily worth asking on the forums (eg. me asking "yo what's that tag away_we_go! even for?" before making an update request) or for faster paced back and forth discussions, but discussions about Danbooru shouldn't solely be taking place over there, and changes shouldn't be implemented from Discord discussions without at least some sort of notice on the forums, imo.
Adding to the point of "faster paced back and forth discussions", topics that might otherwise get overlooked or receive little traction on the forum (whether because no one cares, the OP is too long, etc.) might get more traction in discussion on the Discord server (akin to what NNT said). I know that applies to me and the case of bad source's wiki (though in my instance, I hadn't made any notice, which I'll full take the blame for).
However, the issue at hand was a tag that only had a tagcount of 30. That's not big by any means and can be reverted at any problem.
You’re missing the point. It’s not about being able to revert things or not, it’s about documenting changes and having them reasonably searchable.
Things like “Why was tag x nuked y months ago? There’s nothing about it on the forum.” or “Why is x allowed/banned all of a sudden?” are what I want to avoid.
skylightcrystal said:
Regardless of searchability, stuff "discussed" on discord should not really count as having being discussed at all. Partly because of the fact that some people aren't on discord, but mainly because things posted on there can disappear very quickly, with no indication for people who didn't happen to be in the right chat at the exact right time that any discussion had ever happened.
Also this. Discussions on the forum sure tend to take their sweet time, but at least everyone who visits Danbooru once a day has a chance to take part. Since I don’t use Discord, I don’t know how long discussions take there, but as it’s a real-time chat (AFAIK), I guess that discussions move pretty quickly and whoever happens to present at the time gets to take part and anyone else who drops by a few hours later gets to read the results at best? Not everyone has the time to hang out on Discord all the time.
nonamethanks said:
To be fair, people (mostly builders) already nuke that kind of tags without even asking first anywhere, and if such a small tag is brought up in the forums 50% of the times it'll be ignored.
If a tag is nuked by a builder, there’s at least a higher chance of that user knowing what they’re doing. In case of the sharp_claws tag, it was nuked by a non-builder. Before asking on the forum, I thought Veradux was a tag vandal because inexperienced users nuking small tags which purpose they don’t understand isn’t exactly a new thing.
"I think that's a bit of a simplistic way to look at it, and it's a fair concern to have even if it was a small tag with 30 entries."
I'm well aware that it's a simplistic way to look at things. It's also written in a more provocative manner.
Discord just has the advantage that it isn't as formal as the forums. Experience says that stuff very rarely gets solved on the forums, if they even get a reply. On Discord, that isn't the case because it's more of a chat room.
But yeah, it's also right that discussions of tags should probably happen in the forums, I agree on that as well.
He replaced it in several posts with claws, talons and similar, but I can see the issue given that the existing bug with tag script editing made it seem like he was nuking random tags in the process.
Discord just has the advantage that it isn't as formal as the forums. Experience says that stuff very rarely gets solved on the forums, if they even get a reply. On Discord, that isn't the case because it's more of a chat room.
Well, nobody said that it should be forbidden to discuss stuff on Discord. Just leave some kind of notice on the forum about the result if there’s a chance of tripping up people that weren’t present or want to know about it in the future.
Questions about small tags getting no replies is a soft go ahead because there’s no opposition, which is an answer in itself.
I think the concerns for opening up threads on the forum when it has been discussed on discord are valid. I believe for certain things this is certainly a must. But I have a few things to add:
1.Whether it is the forum or discord, no every builder+ or user participates on every single topic.
2.The discord server does have a section for Danbooru/serious discussion. I started going trough every message posted there even when I wasn't a builder. It's a more easily digestible way to know what is happening in all aspects of Danbooru (except technical, a separate section) and I don't believe I'm alone in doing this.
3.Cementing things that were discussed and agreed upon on Discord, is a fine thing. Just accept that it was discussed in a valid way there. And that the forum post is not much more than a formality/redundancy.
4.Discord has created for a me a more bustling community. It made me go from lurker/plat to builder. It encouraged me to join the conversation more informally and sub-sequentially more formally in the Danbooru section. I believe it has been touched upon how intimidating and closed the forum feels on this site because of the "serious business nature". Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Obviously I'm biased towards the use of Discord. Like I mentioned in my third point, cementing things on the forum is a fine thing to do. I'm just trying to get across that the Danbooru related discussions that happen over the discord server are just as valid/official as the ones on the forum.
In order to copy the pertinent portions of the Discord chat logs to the forums when needed as suggested in this topic, I've created issue #4538. This may involve either Danbooru doing the task or the Fumimi bot on Discord.
I once did this process manually, and an example of this can be found on topic #14041. There may be a bit of noise intermixed in the Discord conversations that need to be cut out, but this could be easily done much like is currently done when replying to a user on this forum.
