Alias discussion: mid-boss → vyers

Oh, just for information's sake for people unfamiliar with the game/anime, I just realized that GameFAQs has an entire transcription of the game included. Here is the relevant section where Vyers/Mid-Boss is introduced:

--- IV.ii.d. Hall of Caresses ---
[Camera shows a magnificent room within Vyers Castle, highlighted by a red couch in the center]

Laharl: Hm? Is this the last room?
Voice: Haaahahahaha!!
Laharl: Who's there!?
Voice: How rude, invading a man's house and asking him, "Who's there?"
Voice: But, I give you credit for your bravery.
Voice: Haaaaaaahhhh!!
Sassy Demon: Voila!
Sassy Demon: ...Forgive moi, I must leave you in awe.
Sassy Demon: My name is Vyers. I am the lord of this castle.
Etna: Vyers? Isn't he the demon that's been knocking off competition for the throne...?
Vyers: Oui. That is correct, mademoiselle.
Vyers: I am an aristocrat with both strength and beauty... They call moi the "Dark Adonis".
Vyers: ...Young man. I assume that you are the son of the late King Krichevskoy, are you not?
Laharl: That's right. I'm Laharl, the heir to the throne.
Vyers: The heir to the throne?
Vyers: Hah! That is history, dear boy. Your existence has long been forgotten...
Vyers: Are you blind to the horde of demons lining up to fight for the throne?
Laharl: So? I'm the heir. That's all that matters.
Laharl: If they've forgotten, then I'll just have to make them remember.
Vyers: I see. So you saw my potential and decided to strike first against moi...
Vyers: Such wonderful intuition... Well played, son of Krichevskoy.
Laharl: I've never even heard of you. It's only a coincidence that we're here.
Laharl: You're just a tiny stepping stone on my path to the throne.
Vyers: *gasp* How dare you! I am the Dark Adonis Vy...
Laharl: Who gives a damn about you? Your new name is "Mid-Boss".
Vyers: Mi, Mi, Mid-Boss!?
Etna: Looks like you hurt his pride, Prince.
Mid-Boss: Unforgivable...
Mid-Boss: That is unforgivable!!!!

[Fade to black]

This also happens to be the last place Vyers' actual name is used, he is cut off every time henceforth he tries to use it. So I'm not sure who's case that helps more, but it does clearly establish Vyers' name via self-introduction within the canon storyline. It also shows that his real name not being used is not complicit like it is in Osaka's case where we still don't use her established and accepted nickname.

Well, since it's a character of higher rank changing his name, I guess it's up to whether or not a same-scene name change constitutes spoilers.

Almost anything that happens in the very first scene a character even appears in can't really be considered a spoiler.

Agreed, Fencedude. Otherwise the very existence of a character could be called a spoiler, and that would dilute the term to the point of meaninglessness.

葉月 said: FWIW, I think this and hetalia names fall in the same category as the other barely confirmed "a wiki told me" names we have decided against before.

Agreed. I do think kasuga_ayumu warrants an exception because even though her real name isn't as well known, it's not *that* obscure, and she's an incredibly well known character in general.

mid-boss_(disgaea) works for me, if Vyers is too obscure for an already obscure character. I know nothing about Disgaea unfortunately.

Alias from vyers tomid-boss_(disgaea) then?

Sounds good to me, mate.

So long as they're linked and unambiguous, it's fine, I guess.

edit: I'm actually of wanchan's opinion below, but it's an acceptable compromise.

He shouldn't be obscure to anyone who's played the game and I would prefer the alias to go to vyers, but I don't care that much since he's not someone I'm often likely to be hunting for pictures of.

Gah, should I just flip a coin? =P

My vote is for Vyers, but what do they use on Pixiv? I don't know any Japanese, but at least from what I'm seeing the tag for mid-boss (中ボス) isn't limited to that character.

jxh2154 said:
too obscure for an already obscure character.

Mid Boss, the character and the name, are definitely not obscure. Vyers sort of is, unless you were paying attention, as the name has not popped up again in over three games.

NWF_Renim said:
tag for mid-boss (中ボス) isn't limited to that character.

The name is an insult precisely because it's a well-known designation for unimportant enemies, it wouldn't make sense if it weren't a term used often by japanese players.

Anyhow, using Pixiv as reference for tagging policy on ANYTHING sounds like shooting ourselves in the foot. Copyright tags are already messy there, character tags are whatever the hell the poster felt like using, in the rare cases where they do include them.

Pixiv is terrible when it comes tagging. I second Ephyon in saying that without something to back it up, it's a bad place for us to use as precedent. Out of curiosity though:

• バイアス / vyers: yields 6 posts, 100% of them are the character we are talking about. All of them are additionally labeled 中ボス.

• 中ボス / mid-boss: yields 8 pages (~160 posts), about 5% of them (8 posts) are the character we are talking about. These include all of the posts tagged バイアス.

• ビューティー男爵 / beauty_danshaku, dark_adonis in the English: yields 3 posts, 100% of them are the character we are talking about. All of them are additionally tagged バイアス and 中ボス

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In their version of the wiki system they give a generic definition for 中ボス / mid-boss, basically: "a boss in the middle of a game"

They also have a definition for ディスガイアでの中ボス / mid-boss_(disgaea): "The character named 'Vyers, the Beauty Danshaku'". This isn't ever used as a tag though.

Their definition for バイアス / vyers is simply "mid-boss"

It's all very messy and disorganized, and their definitions are sort of circular.

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From a precision and recall standpoint on Pixiv:

• Vyers:
• 100% precision
• 75% recall
• f-score = 86%
• "Beauty Danshaku":
• 100% precision
• 38% recall
• f-score = 55%
• Mid-boss:
• 5% precision
• 100% recall
• f-score = 10%

From that analysis Vyers wins by a wide margin.

This is all probably not all that relevant though, being that Pixiv has terrible tagging policies and an entirely different set of relevant posts than ours. For all I know there are other applicable tags for posts I couldn't find. As it is, they don't even have a fixed tag for the series.

Also, its worth noting that in what possible context could we (as Danbooru) ever be tagging "mid boss" other than as the character?

No other character is named this, and its a concept that is not particularly taggable by our standards.

I wouldn't have thought so either, but jxh2154, Hazuki, and jjj14 found it too ambiguous to attach to one character without disambiguation on the first page.

I saw that, but I don't really see why.

It's just too common a concept. The first think mid-boss makes me think of is Touhou, for Meiling or whatever. I suppose how obvious mid-boss == Disgaea is depends entirely on how familiar with Disgaea you are. I am 0% familiar.

I'm fine with vyers or mid-boss_(disgaea) and aliasing one to the other. I don't really see any consensus on which to go with though. Right now it's Vyers but some want the other way.

It really should be Mid-Boss_(disgaea)

And for that matter, we should change Kasuga_ayumu to Osaka_(Azumanga)

IMO at least.

Osaka I definitely don't want to change. But again, maybe that's just because I'm perfectly familiar with her real name, though I think many other people are too. As for this one, I'm open to changing to mid-boss_(diagaea). Guess I'll do so for now... can always be changed.