unicogirl said: she's not gonna flip out and rip his face off is she?
Nah. She only lost control of herself for her first transformation. All of her other transformations were deliberate and completely controlled.
The idea that she was scared of her esper form -- or scared of the strength of her power in general -- is something that Dissidia made up entirely. In FF6, Terra's fears were whether or not she was making the right choices (living under the Slave Crown left her unused to having free will) and whether or not she was human enough to fit in with humans, feeling emotions like "love".
Nah. She only lost control of herself for her first transformation. All of her other transformations were deliberate and completely controlled.
The idea that she was scared of her esper form -- or scared of the strength of her power in general -- is something that Dissidia made up entirely. In FF6, Terra's fears were whether or not she was making the right choices (living under the Slave Crown left her unused to having free will) and whether or not she was human enough to fit in with humans, feeling emotions like "love".
A rather late reply, but...
That's not exactly true.
She WAS depicted as scared of, at the very least, revealing that she had an esper form, as she was continually in fear that if she revealed she wasn't fully human, that she'd be chased out of town. This was a major plot point during recruiting her again in the World of Ruin, where she assumed that the children she'd been caring for for 2 years would hate her after she revealed her ability to transform.
Especially since, aside from her mother, espers are generally portrayed as being sealed away from, feared by, hunted by, captured by, and murdered for magic "fuel" by humans, she just assumed that she had no place in a human world.
Also, because of it, for all the "Terra/Tina "rejects" Edgar stuff", it's more likely she didn't even understand what a "pickup line" even is, or what dating is, and I always got the impression she had a child's understanding of the world in the first place, due to being slave crowned since childhood, having her memories wiped, and spending the bulk of her life since then with nothing but children. All the other girls in Figaro knew Edgar was a total player, and were tired of being used and discarded, but Terra actually seemed to like him, if not exactly understand what he was after, and just feared closeness. In my own headcanon, I would assume Edgar could probably have succeeded in wooing Terra if he'd just pulled one of these "your esper form looks beautiful" and then promised to give all the orphans a home in Figaro.
Actually Terra knew exactly what Edgar was trying to do. She was worried that because she wasn't impressed by him that she was unusual somehow. "A normal girl would have found him charming, but I am not a normal girl." She's assuming the problem is her and not Edgar. :)
Matter of fact, the only girl in the game that expresses interest in Edgar is...Relm. And in a round about way, he expresses interest back, and it's just awkward and funny as hell.
Actually Terra knew exactly what Edgar was trying to do. She was worried that because she wasn't impressed by him that she was unusual somehow. "A normal girl would have found him charming, but I am not a normal girl." She's assuming the problem is her and not Edgar. :)
Matter of fact, the only girl in the game that expresses interest in Edgar is...Relm. And in a round about way, he expresses interest back, and it's just awkward and funny as hell.
I don't remember that part, but then, it HAS been like 20 years... If you're talking little girls, there was also a little girl in the castle that said (I assume quite happily) that Edgar said they could get married "when she was older". There were other girls in Figaro that gave the impression that they liked the flirting, but knew he wasn't serious.
Terra undergoes a lot of character growth, so again, I'd think if he tried to pursue her again post-WoR with a greater degree of sincerity, (as well as provided a home for those kids she cared so much about,) she'd be more open to a slower, more persistent game.
The thing with Relm was after the group reunited after Kefka killed General Leo. After the party leaves them alone, Relm flirts with Edgar, calling him "lover boy" and he reluctantly asks how old she is, and after her response, he says "You've grown up too fast".
Later during her ending without Strago, she calls him lover boy again after threatening the party for leaving her.
Obviously open for interpretation. How much of it is Edgar being a harmless flirt and how much of it is his a actual interest? Is his asking her age him being shocked by her attitude or is it him considering how to respond?
Is Relm just teasing him (she knows he's a flirt from the reveal of the tea girl that saved their lives) or does she actually like him? How much of Relm's maturity an act and how much of it is because of her being a Mozart of sorts?
The thing with Relm was after the group reunited after Kefka killed General Leo. After the party leaves them alone, Relm flirts with Edgar, calling him "lover boy" and he reluctantly asks how old she is, and after her response, he says "You've grown up too fast".
Later during her ending without Strago, she calls him lover boy again after threatening the party for leaving her.
Obviously open for interpretation. How much of it is Edgar being a harmless flirt and how much of it is his a actual interest? Is his asking her age him being shocked by her attitude or is it him considering how to respond?
Is Relm just teasing him (she knows he's a flirt from the reveal of the tea girl that saved their lives) or does she actually like him? How much of Relm's maturity an act and how much of it is because of her being a Mozart of sorts?
I'd always interpreted it as Relm being sarcastic and manipulative, as she shows with basically her every appearance. (She also coerces someone into letting her paint him by bluffing suicide if he didn't.)
Relm is, ironically enough for someone nearly half the age of the others, the most worldly, jaded, sarcastic, and manipulative of the women in FFVI.
Terra is, as I said before, basically a child whose actual childhood years were stolen from her, and is perpetually doomed to fight wars of other people's choosing against her will. She only eventually ever agrees to fight when she has something to protect besides her own skin (and she halfway may have just turned the other cheek) and knows it's threatened - which makes her a more compelling character than basically all other FF leads. She's probably not really capable of understanding romantic love, and is in the "I love you, me, and everybody" or "hana yori dango" stage. (For an extreme "I don't know what marriage means" Aoshima example, post #1084501)
Celes is also a lab rat and military brat who isn't comfortable in her own skin outside the battlefield. Although she's better off than Terra, she's a total novice at social interactions.
Comparatively, Relm comes off halfway to a Kodomo no Jikan character. She fights because she thinks it's cool as much as she just doesn't want to see her only family off and leave her. It weirded Edgar out that after all the "pure" girls, the "corrupt" one was the little girl. She was taunting him for being a flirt in a way meant to be as uncomfortable as possible because she didn't like the way he operated. (She may well have tried to do something rather spiteful and Kodomo no Jikan-like had he actually tried to put some moves on her>)
As much as Terra comes off as lacking confidence in her own humanity, she does make jokes several times throughout the early part of the game. Notably during the battle as they leave Figaro castle and when Sabin makes his appearance.
She's no where near as helpless as her portrayal in Dissidia. Kefka does not frighten her. It should be telling that he had to rob her of her memories and her free will to get her to do what he wanted. In fact, she seems to hold a bit of a grudge against him for putting the slave crown on her.
If Celes was clueless as to how to get along with people, she wouldn't have hustled Setzer as she did. She wouldn't have been able to join the Returners as a double agent as she did. Nor would she be able to pull off a convincing performance as "Maria", one that fooled an entire audience.
Relm is a foul-mouthed little girl, but I don't know what you mean that she found Edgar's behavior towards women to be objectionable.
Terra is, however, a child who effectively woke up one day in an adult's body, although it's unclear when the slave crown was forced on her, and there's basically nothing about that period that's fairly clear. She was forced to wear the slave crown, yes, but she doesn't say anything before that, and all you can see is that she has a "face down" sprite. There's not much you have to infer from that, other than that she wasn't happy about becoming a mindless slave... which nobody would have been happy about, so it doesn't let you infer much about her personality back then.
Afterwards, she's basically coerced by the only people she knows into fighting for them as soon as they get half a chance to, where they tell her that the She Is The Chosen One, and The Fate Of The World Is On Her Shoulders. (She doesn't have an option to say "no", and even if it weren't a "But thou must", she doesn't have any other place to go. The only other places she knows are Narshe -which wants to kill her-, the Empire -which wants to enslave her-, and Figaro -which is under Empire control.) She doesn't even understand whose side she's on at first, and would clearly rather be a pacifist.
Also, googling it (hey look, someone actually put up all the major lines in the game online) she IS scared of Kefka the first time she meets him, when he attacks Figaro:
Kefka: Son of a submariner! They'll pay for this...
Locke: This is great! Terra: Was that a bad person? I... I'm scared...
She learns to overcome that and really, really hate Kefka over time, yes, but that's character growth, and the thing I never like about those "let's mash all the games together" games like Dissidia is that they tend to Flanderize characters quite a bit.
If the joke you are referring to is, "Terra: Younger... "brother?" At first glance I thought he was some body builder who had strayed from his gym..." I don't think that invalidates anything I've said. Putting aside the probability of Woolseyism, here, the fundamental nature of the comment is just to make a joke about how Sabin's a muscular guy. It's actually somewhat more fitting for an ordinary peaceful schoolgirl or young woman to point out the oddness of a muscle-bound giant in their midst next to the slim nanpa guy being the "younger brother" than some hardened soldier.
Speaking of lines, though, the part about "a normal girl would have found him dashing, but I'm hardly... normal" comes as the fourth conversation she participates in, when she's still not even sure who she is, yet, so that's definitely a whole game's worth of character growth between that "rejection" and any possible post-game romantic connection. And honestly, if the thought occurred to her that it should have been charming, it had some effect. Compared to other women who dismiss Edgar out of hand, and take it as a joke, she's actually taking him seriously. (And before Locke heads off, he tells her "please... don't let a certain lecherous young king, who shall remain nameless, near you!" implying he's not quite convinced Edgar would always remain unsuccessful.)
For that matter, many of Terra's lines involve love. I quote Terra and Celes's first conversation below, and when Terra first meets Leo, she immediately hops into this:
Terra: I'm the product of a human and an Esper... Will I ever be able to love someone? Leo: Of course! Terra: But... I haven't felt that way yet... Leo: You're just young,... but I understand what you mean. I understand only too well... Terra: But... I want to know what love is... now!
(Comes off just a little desperate.)
WoR Terra:
Terra: There were only children here... The moment I arrived, I felt needed... Duane: You can't take Terra away! Katrin: Duane... Please excuse him. It's just that if Terra goes, she takes with her the very spirit of our survival... Terra: I don't know why these kids need me... But they've made me feel things I've never felt before. The moment I sensed this, I lost my will to fight. Terra: I can honestly say I don't know what's going on inside of me... And the more I try to understand it, the less inclined I am to fight.
*some fights later*
Monster again... I'm afraid... I'm always afraid... Mama... It is you, isn't it! I can tell... Huh? Mama? Terra? Mama!! Terra!!!! Terra: I... I can fight! Terra: Finally... I understand that feeling... Even though I kept it buried for so long. I'm sure it's called... ...... ...... "Love"! I now realize we must fight for the future of the children. Terra: Duane... Katrin needs your help... so does your new baby. Listen children, your "Mama" has to go away for a while. I'll return when I feel your future's guaranteed! "Mama.. I'm not gonna cry!" "Me either!" Terra: I'll be back! I promise! Till then... you behave! Terra: Thank you... You helped me to understand a part of myself. Now I must go to war. We must all believe we have a future. We must fight for those who aren't even born yet!
Aside from "Yay! I can help by talking espers and humans into peace instead of destroying the world!" talking about whether or not she's capable of love is pretty much the sum total of her topics of conversation, and I just went through the whole script in one go.
I'm not saying she's not brave, and she's easily my favorite FF character, although I'll admit to rose-colored nostalgia on that front, but she's definitely a character whose personal strength is shown in how she is capable of going against what is clearly her nature to be a pacifist. It's actually why I like her as a character; Unlike Butz, Zidane, or Onion Knight who basically just went "WHEE! Adventure!" or Squall's "enh, whatever, if that's what gets me my paycheck, I'll fight stuff," Terra has actual, if crude, character development and a compelling reason for her to Refuse the Call in her Hero's Journey. The only ones who really otherwise question their motives are Cecil and Tidus, and Terra ironically comes off as a lot less childish about the whole thing, and even better-developed, than the much more verbose story behind Tidus.
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Celes is an adult, but she's just not used to civilian life. (See how uncomfortable she was with putting on a dress to meet Setzer.) She was just far more comfortable in an "adversarial" position when facing Setzer. I view her as having a touch of Sagara Sousuke in her - excellent at combat and direct competition, but awkward at everything else in life. Not incapable, but uncomfortable.
Also,
Celes: So you were born with the power of Magic!? Isn't it a lovely gift... Terra: You... can use Magic, too? Celes: When I was a baby I was artificially infused with Magic, and raised as a Magitek Knight. Terra: Have you... loved anyone? Celes: ??? What's that supposed to mean?
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Cyan: Don't think for a moment I trust you! Celes: Fine. Use your own eyes, then decide.
So, Celes wants to talk about how great magic (which, in this game, is used purely for military purposes) is, and seems perfectly fine with the "grr! I hate empire!" conversation. On the other hand, Terra's first reaction to seeing someone else who knows magic is to ask if they were capable of romance in spite of how magic set her apart, and Celes has no clue how to respond, and shuts off the conversation there.
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For Relm, again, she probably figured him for a smooth-talker as soon as she saw him, or else was told about him. She decides to make him her first target of teasing because of it.
Asking someone if they've ever loved someone out of the blue is an odd question, don't you think?
Reponse
It's certainly more indicative of Terra's mindset than Celes's, but Leo seems to just roll with it, and that's seriously the ONE conversation he gets in the game with her, and it's no less sudden when she quizzes him.
I won't pour over the script again for Celes like I did for Terra to pick over quotes, but she's consistently quite confident whenever there's combat or "a mission" or innocents in danger or something, and awkward when dealing with Locke ESPECIALLY when they're working with the empire near the end of the WoB plotline, or generally with anything that doesn't have a clear black-and-white path laid out before her.
And frankly, to go back to the quote I put in the Celes section, since every time magic is brought up, it's always talking about how it separates the magic users from everyone else (to the point where all the magic users have to hide from the rest of humanity) the only people who think getting magic powers is just GREAT are Gestahl, Kefka, and Celes, while Leo admits regret, and how difficult it is for him to get close to others, and Strago's town has to keep their power in hiding... It tells you what her priorities are. The idea of loving someone (other than Cid) is just foreign to her.
She didn't have Leo's "My country, right or wrong" as a motivation, she was primarily motivated by just wanting to please her father-figure, so ran off to war like an eager puppy. She likely lived in Steampunktown all her life to stay with Cid, and probably knew nothing but soldiers and scientists growing up. The fact that she was so willing to so utterly turn on the Empire (after she was apparently in charge of leveling one of the towns on the Imperial Continent, so she probably was witnessing or directing war crimes first-hand) means her disgust for the Empire would have had to have festered for quite a while, since she clearly didn't show much waffling on the issue. In stark contrast to Terra, Celes starts off thinking war and magic are awesome, and a great way to win glory and make daddy happy, which only gets shattered when she sees what it means first-hand.
It's certainly more indicative of Terra's mindset than Celes's, but Leo seems to just roll with it, and that's seriously the ONE conversation he gets in the game with her, and it's no less sudden when she quizzes him.
I won't pour over the script again for Celes like I did for Terra to pick over quotes, but she's consistently quite confident whenever there's combat or "a mission" or innocents in danger or something, and awkward when dealing with Locke ESPECIALLY when they're working with the empire near the end of the WoB plotline, or generally with anything that doesn't have a clear black-and-white path laid out before her.
And frankly, to go back to the quote I put in the Celes section, since every time magic is brought up, it's always talking about how it separates the magic users from everyone else (to the point where all the magic users have to hide from the rest of humanity) the only people who think getting magic powers is just GREAT are Gestahl, Kefka, and Celes, while Leo admits regret, and how difficult it is for him to get close to others, and Strago's town has to keep their power in hiding... It tells you what her priorities are. The idea of loving someone (other than Cid) is just foreign to her.
She didn't have Leo's "My country, right or wrong" as a motivation, she was primarily motivated by just wanting to please her father-figure, so ran off to war like an eager puppy. She likely lived in Steampunktown all her life to stay with Cid, and probably knew nothing but soldiers and scientists growing up. The fact that she was so willing to so utterly turn on the Empire (after she was apparently in charge of leveling one of the towns on the Imperial Continent, so she probably was witnessing or directing war crimes first-hand) means her disgust for the Empire would have had to have festered for quite a while, since she clearly didn't show much waffling on the issue. In stark contrast to Terra, Celes starts off thinking war and magic are awesome, and a great way to win glory and make daddy happy, which only gets shattered when she sees what it means first-hand.
I'm not sure if you will see this but eh... What's made even muddiler in Celes' case- if this story I read on the FF wiki was right... It was KEFKA who was her superior, it could have been like fan fiction or manga but it had a story on there how before he slipped his gears completely Kefka was grooming her as a protege.... then over time his mind just fell apart due to him being the first magitek knight.
Alternately it could be the Emperor himself or Leo she was trying to impress, but if that story is right... how much would it mess you up that the man you once respected and got you everything mentally degenerated into a giggling homicidal clown? That would certainly wreck MY resolve.
Even if it wasn't canon it was an interesting story.