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user318461063 said:

Mizuki is not transgender. You all are stupidly being fooled by queerbait from the developers.

I thought queerbait was used when character isn't gay or something.
And yeah they're not trans. They're non binary.

WhatWillYouDoWithoutMeOp said:

And yeah they're not trans. They're non binary.

This is like saying "bacon isn't meat, it's pork".

All "trans" means is not identifying as one's birth gender. As nobody is assigned a nonbinary identity at birth, nonbinary is effectively a subset of trans.

WhatWillYouDoWithoutMeOp said:

I thought queerbait was used when character isn't gay or something.
And yeah they're not trans. They're non binary.

They're not non-binary, it's listed as "?" which leads one to think this might be a boy crossdressing.

cd_young said:

They're not non-binary, it's listed as "?" which leads one to think this might be a boy crossdressing.

They would've just say they're a boy then.

Mizuki is trans and this is simply an unassailable fact of the canon (especially after today, when, y'know, (spoilers for most recent event on JP as of this writing) they literally get misgendered and outed against their will to one of their closest friends and have an entire emotional breakdown over it

silvia_ash said:

Mizuki is trans and this is simply an unassailable fact of the canon (especially after today, when, y'know, (spoilers for most recent event on JP as of this writing) they literally get misgendered and outed against their will to one of their closest friends and have an entire emotional breakdown over it

Unless it's actually stated, they are not "Canonically" Trans. They can be all sorts of things, like actually Non-binary or a crossdresser, or even simply gay.
And here comes the downvote spam. I wonder if I'll beat my old record of -23.

cd_young said:

Unless it's actually stated, they are not "Canonically" Trans. They can be all sorts of things, like actually Non-binary or a crossdresser, or even simply gay.
And here comes the downvote spam. I wonder if I'll beat my old record of -23.

Generally, cis boys don't respond to being outed/misgendered so... intensely. Do you have an explanation for how they react in Mizu5?

iridescent_slime said:

This is like saying "bacon isn't meat, it's pork".

All "trans" means is not identifying as one's birth gender. As nobody is assigned a nonbinary identity at birth, nonbinary is effectively a subset of trans.

Their gender is, by definition, what they identify as. It's their birth sex that doesn't match. And the existence of intersex people proves not everyone is born as part of the binary, though they will often get treated as a boy or girl based on the parents' convenience.

Also, while it may be technically true that being non-binary would fit the definition of being trans for most people, not everyone in the non-binary community classifies themselves as trans, most likely because of the nuances among those communities. An agender person (who might not even consider themselves nonbinary) would have different thoughts, needs, and priorities from someone desiring a sex change, for example. Classifying gender identity is much more complicated than classifying meat.

Blank_User said:

Their gender is, by definition, what they identify as. It's their birth sex that doesn't match. And the existence of intersex people proves not everyone is born as part of the binary, though they will often get treated as a boy or girl based on the parents' convenience.

Also, while it may be technically true that being non-binary would fit the definition of being trans for most people, not everyone in the non-binary community classifies themselves as trans, most likely because of the nuances among those communities. An agender person (who might not even consider themselves nonbinary) would have different thoughts, needs, and priorities from someone desiring a sex change, for example. Classifying gender identity is much more complicated than classifying meat.

What this all means is simple
Transgender is in the "LGBT+" rainbow, but the rainbow isn't transgender.
The fact there are people arguing that everyone who's sexual divergent from the binary is "Trams" is a gross oversimplification, and frankly the murmuring I've been hearing is the Gay/Lesbian, bi, inter, pan and nons all really want to distance themselves from Trans advocates since those people *Only* make it about themselves.

cd_young said:

What this all means is simple
Transgender is in the "LGBT+" rainbow, but the rainbow isn't transgender.
The fact there are people arguing that everyone who's sexual divergent from the binary is "Trams" is a gross oversimplification, and frankly the murmuring I've been hearing is the Gay/Lesbian, bi, inter, pan and nons all really want to distance themselves from Trans advocates since those people *Only* make it about themselves.

I think I'd be able to take an argument about the diversity and complexity of human experience a little more seriously from someone who hadn't referred to transness as a psychological disorder repeatedly, on multiple posts. Is there any amount of evidence that you would accept as proof that a character is trans? Does Mizuki need to look directly at the camera and say "I am transgender, and/or non-binary" in both English and Japanese?

Good point from Blank_User, though.

verifiably said:

Does Mizuki need to look directly at the camera and say "I am transgender, and/or non-binary" in both English and Japanese?

yeah apparently that's what it'll take, for some people.

They probably also need the main characters in yuri manga to turn and shout "I AM A LESBIAN" at the audience in order to know for sure that they're lesbians, instead of, y'know, seeing a girl passionately kiss another girl and deciding it's probably a safe assumption that she's a lesbian, like a normal person would do

cd_young said:

What this all means is simple
Transgender is in the "LGBT+" rainbow, but the rainbow isn't transgender.
The fact there are people arguing that everyone who's sexual divergent from the binary is "Trams" is a gross oversimplification, and frankly the murmuring I've been hearing is the Gay/Lesbian, bi, inter, pan and nons all really want to distance themselves from Trans advocates since those people *Only* make it about themselves.

Also I can very safely tell you that this is not true. I'm literally trans AND a lesbian. I swim almost exclusively in trans social circles and I've never seen any trans person who doesn't also care about the interests of other queer people and other minorities. There *are* some fringe groups of activists who are intent on excluding trans people but these groups are not by any means representative of queer people generally

All those who fight over a simple drawing are worse off than a child. Grow up, don't be a mental ill lmao

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verifiably said:

Does Mizuki need to look directly at the camera and say "I am transgender, and/or non-binary" in both English and Japanese?

Taking into account that Bridget from Guilty Gear pretty much did that and some folks still are trying to say that is not canon, I would have to think that even that wouldn't be enough for some people.

Agatha_Smaragdos said:

Taking into account that Bridget from Guilty Gear pretty much did that and some folks still are trying to say that is not canon, I would have to think that even that wouldn't be enough for some people.

Though in regards to Bridget, it seems to be more that the whole thing was handled very clumsily with a blatant retcon that went against all established lore leading to some rather unfortunate implications.

matteste said:

Though in regards to Bridget, it seems to be more that the whole thing was handled very clumsily with a blatant retcon that went against all established lore leading to some rather unfortunate implications.

It wasn't a retcon