Well, I already don't really care about what team will end up winning or losing at this point.
I think that the main problem with these last two matches have been their pacing. ...Oddly enough. When a match happens, we kind of want to see both teams actually doing something to prove they are a threat to one another. ...But that's where the last match in particular fell flat on its face.
The whole concept of "don't underestimate humans" is fair and good, valid as a fight sequence goes and develops itself towards its end. The problem is, we pretty much have been pointed to how weak Kaguya and Mokou were in comparison to Eiki and Komachi right at the start of the match, but... Pretty much suddenly, they won. With a strength they quite clearly did not have.
The same thing is pretty much happening in this match, but in this case we know what Remilia and Reimu can do. Still, Marisa and Nitori have been using all those gadgets and tools to help them fight and it's been a massacre thus far. Now we finally see some reaction from Remilia, but I'll have to say it's too late for that. It's the same thing that happened at the Higan Judgement fight -- One-sided curbstomp then suddenly, reaction!
I know what Shirou is doing here with these matches, but it's just that they have not been executed well. Which is a shame, really. This is exactly why the Tenshi/Okuu vs Byakuren/Shou was such a success. Both teams DID THINGS from start to finish, and it was awesome. I know that talking about that fight is old news already, but... Hey, we need something good to reference, don't we?
Kirisame Familiar doesn't seem to be surprised at all.
Goldva said: Well, I already don't really care about what team will end up winning or losing at this point.
I think that the main problem with these last two matches have been their pacing. ...Oddly enough. When a match happens, we kind of want to see both teams actually doing something to prove they are a threat to one another. ...But that's where the last match in particular fell flat on its face.
The whole concept of "don't underestimate humans" is fair and good, valid as a fight sequence goes and develops itself towards its end. The problem is, we pretty much have been pointed to how weak Kaguya and Mokou were in comparison to Eiki and Komachi right at the start of the match, but... Pretty much suddenly, they won. With a strength they quite clearly did not have.
The same thing is pretty much happening in this match, but in this case we know what Remilia and Reimu can do. Still, Marisa and Nitori have been using all those gadgets and tools to help them fight and it's been a massacre thus far. Now we finally see some reaction from Remilia, but I'll have to say it's too late for that. It's the same thing that happened at the Higan Judgement fight -- One-sided curbstomp then suddenly, reaction!
I know what Shirou is doing here with these matches, but it's just that they have not been executed well. Which is a shame, really. This is exactly why the Tenshi/Okuu vs Byakuren/Shou was such a success. Both teams DID THINGS from start to finish, and it was awesome. I know that talking about that fight is old news already, but... Hey, we need something good to reference, don't we?
The difference between this fight and the one between Higan Judgment and Eternal Rivals is that we knew going into the match that Kaguya and Mokou would not make a good team but the sheer power of Higan Judgment was what was surprising and what left a bad taste when they lost despite it.
The difference in this match is that we know Red 75% is superior and that Kirisame Familiar is likely to lose, but Kirisame Familiar has taken every advantage they can get just to go this far. Even though we've seen Red 75% get schooled, it's different from Eternal Rivals because here we KNOW that they can do really well if they could just get a move in on their opponents and that despite all they've endured that they haven't been severely weakened from it.
My hope is that all of this dominance so far has merely been to level the playing field. I hope that everything Kirisame Familiar has done ends up weakening Red 75% enough that once all the tricks are out of the bag that we are left with a more balanced match where both sides then play a fairly straight fight.
It's like how Yuugi and Suika went giant in their match and ended up burning through their energy so much that they weren't going to just steam role everyone else.
Or if you need another representation, imagine that Red 75%'s energy is 200 and Kirisame Familiar's is 80 but for now KF is using batteries from their seconds to keep their energy stable, they use all these tricks and tactics on Red 75% which drains them from 200 to 100 after which KF loses their batteries and is left with their 80 points of energy, the match doesn't end but now both sides are much more even and the match can now proceed into a more back and forth kind of fight.
The extent to which Marisa's powerup and Nitori's water support helped them out was entirely up to Shirou. He could have had them bring them up to Reimu and Remilia's level, and given us a straight fight from the beginning. But nooooo.
If it's a fair and even fight from here, with Red 75% down to half strength from what they have taken so far, then I think most of us would be happy no matter who won.
You really think the one supposedly strongest vampire around will go down THAT EASILY? To CHEATERS at that? A simple kappa is not going to take her down. THAT is what canon Remilia is. A vampire. A fucking strong vampire. Not some wimpy little bitch, like fanon likes you to believe.
Andulusi said: The extent to which Marisa's powerup and Nitori's water support helped them out was entirely up to Shirou. He could have had them bring them up to Reimu and Remilia's level, and given us a straight fight from the beginning. But nooooo.
People would have complained that way too and we wouldn't have near as much of a feel for how much Kirisame Familiar has to do just to keep going at Red 75%, we get to see the audience having a legitimate reason to boo competitors, the seconds Patchouli and Alice are playing an integral part in the fight, and tactics and tricks are being used. There's lot's of things we wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
Why in the world are people complaining about the cheating in the way they are? I was sad and upset that Pyramid Volcano lost the way they did but I was only mad at Hourai Master/Servant Combination, why are people mad at the way the plot is going and complaining about Dei? The match isn't over yet and things can still go in many possible directions.
Think of it this way, if Red 75% wins then that means we will have yet to see them go all out on opponents that can match themselves and so we'll get to see new things when they fight next AND they'll have the prestige of beating an opponent that played dirty and still won by playing clean. If Kirisame Familiar wins then we get another "heel" team for both the crowd and the readers to see as bad guys and so the finals will be that much more exciting, they would also have new things to show in their next match because they'll have to come up with new tricks for their next fight and no other teams would treat them as push overs and so they wouldn't fall into the trap of telling them to just do anything they want which would put more pressure on Kirisame Familiar.
The story can go great no matter who wins in this.
Shinkukage09 said: You really think the one supposedly strongest vampire around will go down THAT EASILY? To CHEATERS at that? A simple kappa is not going to take her down. THAT is what canon Remilia is. A vampire. A fucking strong vampire. Not some wimpy little bitch, like fanon likes you to believe.
The_Shadow said: If it's a fair and even fight from here, with Red 75% down to half strength from what they have taken so far, then I think most of us would be happy no matter who won.
Personally I wouldn't be happy no matter who won, while I know Reimu/Remi team will win, I kinda get bored of either of those winning in a sense. Plus Reimu winning would probably mean the team will win the whole thing. :/
My money is on Red 75%. The second they get into synch, it's over for Kirisame Familia. While they are exploiting weaknesses, the unfortunate thing is that they're getting as worn out as their opponents, and IMO, Remi and Reimu are the ones with the superior stamina in the long run, especially with the Mini Hakkero installation Marisa has.
Hah, is this the Kinnikuman Mantaro vs Kevin Mask fight of Touhou? Else, I won't expect this much rage generated.
And I don't get the whining regarding how the power level is written to be not equal that one team has to cheat its way out (With the other team allowing it to boot). A prepped kappa will have a hard time to go on an equal ground with a vampire unless the water dweller has the fight in its territory.
Also, just so that people will stop using Heavenly Sky against Lotus Star White Tiger as the perfect fight, had Nazrin not agreed with Satori's terms in not having seconds involved in the match, their team would have more control compared to their opponents (Satori knew well that the Heavenly Sky duo might not listen to her).
Sure, they agreed not to include seconds in that match for something fair and square. And in this match, a vampire underestimated her opponents, and proclaimed to take on everything they could throw at her. So there.
^ Lets be fair. Reimu agreed to the plan prior to the match and if I understand properly, it wasn't even Remilia's plan to begin with. It was Tewi's.
One could argue that taking a plan from Tewi demonstrates a level of stupidity on both Reimu and Remilia's part but its not one-sided arrogance from Remilia alone.
I somehow felt and still feel that that spanish donkey from before wasn't just for show... (so far we've seen plenty of WATER, maybe it's time for Marisa to act again with her hakkero?)
Wonder if Tewi will interfere by sabotaging Patchy, who may be focusing on countering Remilia. Also, Remilia is canonically fond of melee over danmaku, Nitori could make a nice fight, even without water, if they're brought down to the same level. Wonder how her sumo skills will work out.
There's still another possibility (a cheesy one), which is Remilia baiting Alice's dolls into something and then using them against Kirisame Familiar. Or, Remi and Nitori knock each other out, and then it's hakkero vs haxbarrier at the end.
edit:
randomness said: Second strongest of three if you count PC-98. Second strongest of two if you don't.
there are two vampires in PC-98, making it four. (and the two PC-98 vampires have almost no canon information, just stage placement)
I think the main problem with this match is execution and setup as it's not exactly being performed as good as it could be, otherwise we'd be rooting on the underdog or such.
StriderTuna said: I think the main problem with this match is execution and setup as it's not exactly being performed as good as it could be, otherwise we'd be rooting on the underdog or such.
F.I.A said: And I don't get the whining regarding how the power level is written to be not equal that one team has to cheat its way out (With the other team allowing it to boot).
Is this addressed to me? I don't care whether the weaker team's method of catching up is cheating or not. I just want whatever method they use to result in me having a match to read, instead of either substituting one curbstomp for another (like the cheating) or accomplishing nothing and leaving us with the original curbstomp (like the Mini-Hakkero).
StriderTuna said: I think the main problem with this match is execution and setup as it's not exactly being performed as good as it could be, otherwise we'd be rooting on the underdog or such.
Well, in this case, we have to at least give the underdogs credit. Not sure how commendable their cheating is, but if Marisa's speech justified her actions effectively, it's the least bit understandable.
I think the two of them have more of an excuse to play dirty. Take for instance what Kaguya did in her fight with Mokou and Keine. Can't really excuse her when she deliberately provoked Mokou in order to rile the audience. You'd hate her for that. Plus, the odds were neither for nor against them for such a tactic to be used. However, I'm not saying that it's impossible to hate Kirisame Familiar, but take the fact that one is a human and one is a kappa. I have no idea how powerful a kappa's supposed to be, but I think a vampire is a hell of a lot stronger. And compared to Reimu, Marisa's pretty much overpowered. The two feel threatened and therefore have to go through extreme measures to win, even if it is underhanded.
If the match were more interesting to read I don't think people would mind so much. But the underdogs don't feel like underdogs because they're the ones dishing out all the hits. Kirisame Familia keeps talking up Reimu's team but 75% Scarlet hasn't done anything significant on screen.
Anything that 75% Scarlet does that's supposed to enforce their overpoweredness happens off-screen. Supposedly, Reimu has counterattacked both Nitori and Marisa but we never see it.
Instead, what we've seen on-screen is Reimu getting her brain rattled and Remilia getting hit with one of her weaknesses no matter what she does. It makes 75% Scarlet feel like the underdogs. No matter what they do, they get smacked down.
The underdogs shouldn't come across as overdogs. And vice-versa. YMMV, of course.
blasterboy said: Well, in this case, we have to at least give the underdogs credit. Not sure how commendable their cheating is, but if Marisa's speech justified her actions effectively, it's the least bit understandable.
I think it's understandable, but not justifiable. Theres a difference between cheating to compensate power difference and cheating to win at ANY costs. Remember the iron maiden thing? Imagine what would've happened if it actually hit Reimu. It looks like it would have been at least a near-fatal hit. It may be opinion based, but I think if you just go assume that it won't kill her, because Remi is going to do this and this...it's crossing limits. Besides, even if they win one match through doubtable actions, their next opponents will definitely wipe the floor with them. I don't think that they will be allowed to use their backup in (any of) the next match(es), so there's only an "ordinary human and an ordinary kappa" left. Which will leave them with one victory, which is denounced as dirty victory by ~half the crowd. Not even sure if the other half is that happy about it either.
Damn is that a bruise from the 2nd Iron Maiden toss or is that some serious rage? I couldn't tell earlier but thought it was a rage thing but now with this close up... just damn if those are 2 black eyes and face bruises. Anyway safe to say Reimu would've been pinned to 3 if Remilia tossed a different direction.
DHP said: Damn is that a bruise from the 2nd Iron Maiden toss or is that some serious rage? I couldn't tell earlier but thought it was a rage thing but now with this close up... just damn if those are 2 black eyes and face bruises. Anyway safe to say Reimu would've been pinned to 3 if Remilia tossed a different direction.
I've reached the conclusion that it's because of the sun oil Nitori smacked in her face earlier.
Chinchen said: I hope he leaves the outcome to the public again... you know...
Although he said that it would not affect the outcome of the match, he took a vote in order to determine audience reaction (whether they'll sympathize with Marisa's proclamation or not).
...underestimate Remilia Scarlet!!Don't you...One-handed ThrowSmack!With flowing water(?) right at her face......she has thrown Nitori, who was pinning her!...were certainly sighs.Episode 747: Humiliation to the Point of TremblingFrom the Artist's Pixiv page....with her weaknesses exploited with all those weapons.
- AkyuuOoohShe has thrown!!It seems like even Remilia is exhausted.
- YuukaAnd what escaped from the audience who were booing just now...The tide can turn either way!...Thr-!That's inevitable...
- Akyuu