The really terrifying threat of revolutionary Soviet Communism, existential to the rest of the earth --- the Nazis not so much, since they never came near the power to take over the world, nor even ever wanted to --- was that they would have encircled the globe with hundreds of military bases, from whence they could launch military force not only on the countries they forced to willingly have the bases, but on any others they thought a threat.
They had a vicious politik, and used their power selfishly without consideration for decency.
Nazis not so much, since they never came near the power to take over the world, nor even ever wanted to
Yeah, maybe Mussolini and Hitler wasn't so bad guys at all. They actually fighting with "commie threat", "just missed" with jewish and Allies and the Eastern Europeans. Sounds logical.
Yeah, maybe Mussolini and Hitler wasn't so bad guys at all. They actually fighting with "commie threat", "just missed" with jewish and Allies and the Eastern Europeans. Sounds logical.
Not really. I pointed out logistically they could not extend too far since even though simply a bandit-empire like the Mongols or Napoleon's, needing to drain each new conquest to pay for the next one, they could never hold enough resources. Fuck, the point is they couldn't even take over all the Russias.
They could never invade North America or Latin America or Africa. Only expansive ideologies can attempt universal conquest. Not the Romans nor the Mongols either, since their powers had limits.
Yeah, maybe Mussolini and Hitler wasn't so bad guys at all. They actually fighting with "commie threat", "just missed" with jewish and Allies and the Eastern Europeans. Sounds logical.
You can tell it to 27 millions of soviet people, who died back there. And how many people died/were injured in 2WW. For Leningrad (current St. Peterburg). The sity was blockaded for 872 days... For Stalingrad. The sity was almost completly turned to bloody hell For Oswensimб Buchenwald. How many died there?
You can tell it to 27 millions of soviet people, who died back there. And how many people died/were injured in 2WW. For Leningrad (current St. Peterburg). The sity was blockaded for 872 days... For Stalingrad. The sity was almost completly turned to bloody hell For Oswensimб Buchenwald. How many died there?
I believe MAyDay8's post was meant to be sarcastic. (Responding to "Soviets were the real threat" with "oh, yeah, the Nazis 'just missed' and 'accidentally' deliberately went around genociding the Jews".)
Claverhouse said:
Not really. I pointed out logistically they could not extend too far since even though simply a bandit-empire like the Mongols or Napoleon's, needing to drain each new conquest to pay for the next one, they could never hold enough resources. Fuck, the point is they couldn't even take over all the Russias.
They could never invade North America or Latin America or Africa. Only expansive ideologies can attempt universal conquest. Not the Romans nor the Mongols either, since their powers had limits.
I dislike how people seem to assume that any alternative history has to start at 1942. It was far from a forgone conclusion that America would enter the war on the Allies' side, as it was very much the deliberate machinations of Roosevelt who was ideologically anathema to the Nazis straining tooth and nail against a large contingent of appeasers and Nazi sympathizers within the United States and halls of Washington. (Much of the Nazi ideology had come from American race propaganda, especially from the likes of the KKK.) If FDR had died a decade earlier, America might never have entered the war and stopped all shipments to Britain, which would have given Germany a really good shot at actually winning the Battle of the Atlantic and starving the UK out, and likely winning in North Africa and taking the oil fields of the Middle East. Once there, the desperate supply shortage could have been reversed. It may not have been possible to just advance ceaselessly, but it's not like suddenly finding themselves well-fortified around a massive resource reserve would have ever left the Nazis appeased, they'd just take a couple years to build up their military and start expanding again.
You could talk about being unable to hold the land they held even if they had military victories... but a lot of the talk of resistance was myth. By far the strongest insurgent resistance to the Nazis came from Russian guerrillas, which is more to be expected when Nazi views of race held Slavs to be one of the lowest "races", and they turned out even more willing to genocide Soviet-territory civilians than even Stalin was. Most of Europe was willing to go belly-up to the Nazis, and much of the world was still under the thumb of colonialism. How much would an African or Asian care about the change of the small number of European overlords that take all the wealth changing from British or Dutch to German? In the words of The Who, "There's nothing in the streets that looks any different to me, and the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye. And the parting on the left is now a parting on the right, and the beards have all grown longer overnight."
How much would an African or Asian care about the change of the small number of European overlords that take all the wealth changing from British or Dutch to German
Just a small correction here: It didn't change from Dutch to German, it changed from Dutch to Japan
No doubt, but still doesn't mean the Nazis were ever strong enough to get much further, nor nimble-minded enough to rule an empire. From where they started, let's say post-WWI, it's an amazing thing they ever got as far as 1942. People always over-estimate Germany's power *.
And manpower: by the end the SS 'Army' was pan-european rather than German, whatever Himmler's dreams may have been, and whatever other changes that would have come with a Nazi victory [ aside from the medically deranged Hitler being put on an honoured bus ], the you dilute your forces, the more the other sets will demand their share of power eventually. They wouldn't have even had to go back to the Roman use of Mercs and Auxiliaries who eventually ran the whole empire: the Nazi Party itself had gone through adjustments to the demands of factions with attendant compromises.
As an analogy, in the Napoleonic Wars: France had 38 million population; England 12 million excluding Ireland 6 million; and Prussia, 5 million; to fight at all at those rates is astounding, and that was normal odds in Europe since the French victory at Bouvines. Even in 1870 France had double the manpower of Bismarck's boys.
This is the glory of any army; not to win, but the fight against overwhelming odds.
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Still, this is a long way from my point that a Soviet victory [ where I didn't even mention WWII ] imposing their rummy version of marxist-leninism would have meant a rogue nation holding the rest of humanity at gun-point with say, 800 war-bases around the world, forcing their economic ideology on everyone.
Even, say, demanding foreigners who offended them to be yielded up to their demented forms of justice, as traitors to humanity.
We shall free these Aleutian islands from the yoke of the Abyssal fleet!And build a Soviet UnionMISSILE BASE!!And then we'll grant it independence as a Socialist Republic,ALASKA
All the names are in Hiragana, meaning you could say Arasuka, Meipuru and Amerika instead.The Doomsday Clock's gonna advance.She's pretty into this, isn't she.Now I'll be able to give those accursed Shipgirls the beating of their lives..!Thanks to my remodelling, I've obtained even more power...!Is that an anti-Abyssal fleet missile?Farewell!!VWRAAAAGH!THE SHOW'S OVERKUHAHAH-AMERICAMAPLEPacific OceanCurrently hereabouts.Let's go, Comrades!Ku-ku-ku!*MENACING*