Ah yes. The infamous "Order 227", more commonly known as "Not one step back".
In the words of Stalin: "In the Soviet army it takes more courage to retreat than advance."
I'm not sure if it would apply to the navy though, ships are a much more costly investment than tanks or planes. Though the naval infantry would be a different thing.
Well damn. It's like the old gangster movies where they send in death squads---and yes, it's just like what Onishi Takijirou did back in WWII "Die killing the enemy or die by your comrade's hand"
Well, that was pure bullshit and western propaganda. The order not to retreat stands for "Moscow is at our back, we can not retreat any further." And for a fact, Soviet's Red Army had way more Mosin-Nagant than they do with soldiers. Ain't no shit like charging up without a weapon can happen. Well, there were many distorted facts in that movie, but listing them would be counting stars. There will be an end, but we would have all died before the end.
Nonsense! Remember the feat of the Varyag. Crew Varyag no one forced to die for the honor of the Russian fleet. Officers and ordinary sailors unanimously voted to flood their ship. They could easily escape from death - not to leave the port, where there were English, American and other ships. But, then they would shame the entire Russian fleet.
Barrier Troops, the concept, started with Trotsky in the Civil War, and his boys really did shoot the unwilling and unreliable. On the other hand he had people killed for almost anything anyway.
He was a most detestable little man, worse than Koba, but not as bad as Lenin.
Barrier Troops is one big myth of anti-Soviet propaganda. I mean, yeah, they was exist, but they don't murdering everybody who retreating!
They're only a myth in the sense they didn't take the form of a guy 50 feet away with a machine gun, but special units that patrolled roads and areas some distance behind the lines for the purposes of "reinforcing morale" with extreme measures absolutely 100% existed.
The orders creating and directing them are plain as day and basically say "have guards, and if people retreat in a panic or without authorization you're allowed to shot them based on the vaguest of evidence." About the only defense apologists can offer is that the orders implementation was "mostly at the discretion of the officers" and that it wasn't usually interpreted in such an extreme manner, so most men caught were remanded back to their unit, jailed, or sent to a penal unit.
Most.
You were rolling the dice, if you got a hardass he could absolutely just shot you and be within the letter of the law. At a minimum by the Soviet Union's own internal reports they officially killed over ten thousand 'deserters' during the initial phase of the war. These large scale formations that basically acted like Judge Dread free to mead out punishment up to and including death on the vaguest of accusation if the mood struck them were a very real and feared thing. Even if in a sanitized overview they "didn't really kill THAT many men"
NKVD was real, it was not a propaganda. Their methods had been recorded and preserved.
NKVD is secrect police force, as same as Gestapo, they rarely engage the enemies, they just watch over the barrier troops. The barrier troops are Penal Battalions, their members are military criminals, deserters v.v... Who was gave second chance instead be executed.
Order No.227 is just a method to stop endlessly retreatin panic which reduce the entire army's moral and broke the line by attach Penal Troops to stop those kind of retreats, it is not fight to the last one in cold blood. All field commanders are not allow to retreat without order from Commanding officers or the HQ is normal in all armies around the world, no matter you're in US, German or Japan.
Finally, each Army has 1 Penal Battalion, 800 men. It is mean 800 blocking soldiers respond for 50.000to over 100.000 soldiers, if they want to really "blocking" they need more number of these guys.
Usually barrier troops were not anything near what 40k commissars are like. From Catherine Merridale’s book “Ivan’s War”:
Few officers were keen to spare their best men for service in the blocking units[ AKA barrier troops]. They had been in the field too long; they knew the value of a man who handled weapons well. So the new formations were stuffed with individuals who could not fight, including invalids, the simple-minded and – of course – officers’ special friends. Instead of aiming rifles at men’s backs, these people’s duties soon included valeting staff uniforms or cleaning the latrines
But they did execute men, typically the commanders of routing units. To quote from "The Soviet Military Experience: A History of the Soviet Army, 1917-1991":
I came to know about it [Order 227] at the village of Vesely outside of Rostov.
Our retreat was barred by a special purpose detachment [of the NKVD]. A few hundred of OFFICERS of retreating units were driven to a large farm. They were escorted one at a time, into a house. Three men sat at a table. They asked us about our rank and where our personnel were. The answers were generally stereotyped:
“What’s the use of asking it if everybody is fleeing. The Germans have broken through the front. What could have possibly a platoon leader or a company commander done in that situation?”
The trial was short. The sentence was passed then and there. The accused were led behind a pigsty and shot.
When my turn came, Marshal of the Soviet Union Semion Budenny suddenly appeared in the village. The execution was suspended. We were lined up. Budenny asked us “Who wants to fight?” Everybody made a step forward.
Usually barrier troops were not anything near what 40k commissars are like. From Catherine Merridale’s book “Ivan’s War”:
But they did execute men, typically the commanders of routing units. To quote from "The Soviet Military Experience: A History of the Soviet Army, 1917-1991":
Order 227 aiming to mostly officers, not all normal soldiers. Order 227 tried to keep the offiers who command their units keep disciplined and calm while waiting for new orders from HQ.
Let's look at some facts here.From 1942 august 1st to 1942 october 15,Red army's barrier troops arrested 140,755 men.131,904 were either sent back to original unit or as replacement for other units.3% of arrested men-3,980 men- were found guilty,2,766 soldiers and NCOs were sent to penal companies and 185 officers were sent to penal battalions.Only 1,189 men were executed,about 0.84%.
It is a myth that soviet regime's strict discipline somehow reinforced army's fighting spirit.About 8.2% of entire soviet army either deserted or tried to evade draft.Whereas 3% of U.S. and British army did so.
source:Roger R. Rees, Why Stalin’s Soldiers Fought: The Red Army’s Military Effectiveness in World War II, (University Press of Kansas) pp.160~175
Let's look at some facts here.From 1942 august 1st to 1942 october 15,Red army's barrier troops arrested 140,755 men.131,904 were either sent back to original unit or as replacement for other units.3% of arrested men-3,980 men- were found guilty,2,766 soldiers and NCOs were sent to penal companies and 185 officers were sent to penal battalions.Only 1,189 men were executed,about 0.84%.
It is a myth that soviet regime's strict discipline somehow reinforced army's fighting spirit.About 8.2% of entire soviet army either deserted or tried to evade draft.Whereas 3% of U.S. and British army did so.
source:Roger R. Rees, Why Stalin’s Soldiers Fought: The Red Army’s Military Effectiveness in World War II, (University Press of Kansas) pp.160~175
They killed way more then that by their own official estimates, and you can try and minimize it all you want, but the fact units like this even existed and that execution was common enough to be widely known was highly unusual compared to basically any other army. Now obviously it didn't work, desertion was still rampant compared to other forces, but that's not the same thing as saying it didn't happen because it clearly did based on all historical evidence.
When my turn came, Marshal of the Soviet Union Semion Budenny suddenly appeared in the village. The execution was suspended. We were lined up. Budenny asked us “Who wants to fight?” Everybody made a step forward.
Never heard of this guy before, so I looked him up on Google images. That mustache alone would be worth fighting for.
They killed way more then that by their own official estimates, and you can try and minimize it all you want, but the fact units like this even existed and that execution was common enough to be widely known was highly unusual compared to basically any other army. Now obviously it didn't work, desertion was still rampant compared to other forces, but that's not the same thing as saying it didn't happen because it clearly did based on all historical evidence.
Yeah, clearly is based on all Western propoganda evidence, as same as Hussen's nuclear weapon.
ADVANCENonono, no way!You're gonna get sunk!If we retreat, we'll be shot - executed as deserters!Like hell we will!!What are you talking about!?By the barrier troops!It's okay!I can still fight!What is this, Stalingrad!?
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