The note about the TBF Avenger being crappier then TBD Devastator..
Plane was alright, it was the inexperience of american pilots not being used to torpedo bombing runs, lack of coordinated fighter cover (esp. on Midway) and the defects the Mark 13 air-dropped torpedo had, which shared the defects with it's bigger naval variant.
The note about the TBF Avenger being crappier then TBD Devastator..
Plane was alright, it was the inexperience of american pilots not being used to torpedo bombing runs, lack of coordinated fighter cover (esp. on Midway) and the defects the Mark 13 air-dropped torpedo had, which shared the defects with it's bigger naval variant.
Parts of this are rather debatable, torpedo bombers early in the war (and frankly even later against competent integrated air defense) were frankly just death traps generally. There is a reason they were mostly extinct even before air launched guided missiles became prominent.
The USN pilots certainly did not lack training in any case, the US had operated TB just as long as Japan had it's pilots were trained to high standards. The Naval pilots of the USN and IJN were very evenly matched, the Japanese pilots where elite yes, but so where the USN pilots who by and large had easily the most flying time and experience of any US armed forces pilots at the outbreak of the war. There was a coordination issue at Midway which did not help, but even if escorts had been present between the flak and an effective CAP casualties still would have probably been heavy and results questionable. Just like they where for the Japanese under the same conditions.
Part of that was the Mark 13 torpedo, but it had different issues then other US torpedoes actually. It's chief failing early in the war was fragility in terms of drop parameters which restricted it's release conditions (it's depth setting and exploder worked properly barring impact damage). If dropped outside those limited parameters it tended to be damaged by water impact and then fail to run properly. This did make US TBs somewhat more vulranble, but it was a matter of degree not a unique problem.
Even the "good" Japanese air torpedo was prescribed drop parameters that gave a height of about 200 feet at a maximum speed of only about 300kph, from under a kilometer away. Scores of images show Japanese TB attacking at extremely low altitude and very close range in 1942, and they suffered nearly as badly for it. The Japanese TBs took horrific losses attempting to attack the US warship during most of the pacific battles as well. The last strike that managed to get a lucky final hit that crippled Hornet consisted of IIRC seven TB because that was all that was left combat capable from three Japanese CVs[i/]. Earlier in the battle 16 TB attacked Enterprise, nine were destroyed inflicting zero damage. Over 50% casualties for zero effect, this was not an uncommon outcome.This was largely a factor of flight profile rather then any particular performance of the aircraft involved, training, or doctrine. The TB had to approach low, on a more or less converging course from either the forward quarter or about broadside which drastically simplified the fire control problem for the ships and allowed a much larger number of guns to bear. It also had to get close; the maximum range of most aircraft torpedoes was a handful of kilometers and unlike a destroyer or submarine torpedo because the launch was obvious the target was almost certain to maneuver evasively against the threat.In addition in cases were the enemy utilized an effective circular screening formation, as pioneered by the USN, the TB had to fly more or less directly through the outer rings before it approached torpedo range of the valuable ships at the center. This, comparatively, slow largely level flight through the entire AA screen also provided a chance for mutual support from other ships against a comparatively simple crossing target. Beyond even that because the final phases had to be made at low level enemy fighters could easily dive on the formation from above at a considerable advantage and tail it right up to or even into the AA fire engaging the entire time, even if escorts attempted to intervene they would end up drawn down and forced to try and fight at low level which was disadvantageous for any number of reasons.Torpedo bombing was an inherently high risk operation and in the face of effective integrated air defense it approached suicidal. The Japanese carrier TB units were suffering up to 50% attrition in early battles. The only reason such horrific losses could be justified was because even a single torpedo hit could seriously damage or even destroy a ship, where as despite it's safety it often took many, many dive bomber hits to destroy a large warship. The US was lucky, by the time it's torpedoes where fully sorted it had attained total air dominance and Japanese AA was laughably ineffective. (See the battle in the Sibuyan sea where in basically the entire Japanese heavy fleet, in a close defensive formation managed to shot down less then 20 planes over the course of an entire day of continuous air strikes)US TB got unlucky at Midway, losses in other battles where high but not total, this has to some extent lead to the anecdote that they were always completely ineffective and total massive losses. It is true they did often take heavy losses, but EVERYONE's torpedo bombers took heavy losses routinely if they attacked defended targets and there was no more heavily defend point target on the face of the earth at that time then a carrier battlegroup. Beyond that when you get right down to it IJN carrier TBs managed to sink just two US capital ships the entire war, Hornet and Lexington (Yorktown would have been saved IMO if not for the submarine attack), not counting Pearl Harbor for obvious reasons. So yeah when you get right down it the Japanese TBs weren't exactly producing outstanding returns for their massive losses either where they?
I have returned, Solomon!Grumman TBF AvengerU.S.S. South Dakota2 battleshipsNovember 13th
Naval Battle of GuadalcanalGot hit by countless torpedoes?HieiYukikaze, scuttle me!On November 14th morning, she sunk Kinugasa.I'm calling Washington to join us!GuadalcanalTask Force 16 is gaining strength.Actually, U.S.S. Enterprise did not know about Yukikaze, and she was too lazy to care about a mere destroyer.Escort YukikazeNovember 12th, during a night battle, Hiei used her searchlight, and was set afire due to having sustained concentrated fire.U.S.S. Enterprise's first battleship sinking.U.S.S. AtlantaWas hit by 3 torpedoesOn November 13th morning, she was bombarded by 20 of U.S.S. Enterprise's Douglas SBD Dauntless dive-bombers.No!Okay!20 Grumman TBF Avenger11 transport ships were sunk.A lot better than the shitty Douglas TBD DevastatorsIn the afternoon, she took out the weakest transport ships to cut off the Japanese's line of supply, and let the Japanese army (on Guadalcanal) starve to death.
