That's what you get for underestimating DAMCON teams.
On the other hand, the Americans tended to assume that enemy ships got away when they were actually sunk. See: USS Albacore vs. Aircraft Carrier Taihou
That's what you get for underestimating DAMCON teams.
On the other hand, the Americans tended to assume that enemy ships got away when they were actually sunk. See: USS Albacore vs. Aircraft Carrier Taihou
"We thought DAMCONs come standard on all ships."
"Also, it never crossed our minds that a ship could fart herself to death."
That's what you get for underestimating DAMCON teams.
On the other hand, the Americans tended to assume that enemy ships got away when they were actually sunk. See: USS Albacore vs. Aircraft Carrier Taihou
Generally speaking, the English had fantastic DAMCON, and American were really good, as well. They just assumed that Japan, being so utterly reliant upon and proud of her navy, would OF COURSE have spent as much or maybe even more time making sure her precious few ships would always be ready for action, and that they would be reinforced at least as much as theirs were.
HAHA! NOPE! A stiff wind could set Akagi on fire, and Kaga's entire shipwide DAMCON system was disabled by a single, relatively small-yield bomb.
By contrast, at Coral Sea, the Japanese were sure they had sunk Yorktown, but she got a slapdash "duct tape and plywood" and was kicked back onto the line for Midway, where she took the full brunt of the Japanese attack, and they were sure that, since they left her in flames, she was going to sink in minutes. Then, American DAMCON put out the fires, repaired the deck, and made her ready to launch before the next Japanese wave, which was certain they must be attacking a whole new carrier because, I mean, look at it, it's certainly all fresh and repaired, and not on fire like that carrier they just sank! So they torpedoed Yorktown AGAIN (only American carrier to take ANY damage, basically making it American Shoukaku...) and actually managed to knock out power, but Yorktown's American DAMCON again managed to put out fires, even without power. By this time, it was listing badly, and couldn't pump the water out without power, but may well have been able to get towed back to port... Only to get hit by i-168 (Imuya) with torpedoes...
Once again, Kaga was sunk with ONE BOMB that set her aviation fuel on fire AND disabled every part of her DAMCON systems. It wasn't even a lucky strike, her DAMCON system was so flimsy and lacking safeguards, and her fuel lines left open and full of gasoline and lying out everywhere, Kaga could have been hit pretty much anywhere and gone up like a match.
That's not even the most ludicrous, as USS Johnston was capable of withstanding battleship munitions tearing as much as 40-foot-wide holes through her for a ridiculous amount of time thanks to American DAMCON.
Basically, the difference in DAMCON was like making American carriers into the equivalent of Japanese battleships.
And it really showed in other aspects, as well. The Japanese Zero was so maneuverable because they just took out all the "excess weight" from stupid things like armor and safety systems, and made it from wood so that it would warp and disintegrate after just a few years in action, and explode midair for not good reason, taking their elite pilots with them. American aircraft, even the crap ones, tended to be built like a tank. Japanese veteran pilots died, and American veterans just got a new plane and got sent back for more.
Generally speaking the US had 'fantastic' DameCon and the British had 'acceptable' DameCon during WW2, so says and said both navies. It's just that everyone else had horrible DameCon comparatively. The Brits argue that their carriers were the more durable, however; but that's debatable.
As for the most ludicrous tale of US DameCon... ...well, the Johnson was amazing by default, but I can't really say it was ludicrous. Simulations have been able to understand how the Johnson survived as long as she did ever since it happened. The ludicrous one has to be the Laffey (DD-724), since they still can't figure that one out.
The Johnson perhaps survived some 25,000-35,000lbs of torture (give or take some, I didn't actually do the math here - it's a guesstimate), and that's assuming all BB caliber impacts were from the Yamato and not the Kongo (which would cut their effect in half). Fact is, we don't actually know how many hits the Johnson received. ~2 hits from the Yamato (main guns), 4 to 6 hits from the Kongo (main) and potentially 8 or so from the secondaries, possibly 6 or so hits from the heavy cruisers (although some reports say these were from Yamato's 6-inchers, which is more reasonable due to positioning), and 20+ hits from the DDs. Of course, the punishment list could be off; if someone is willing to make countering claims I'd be willing to actually calculate the list.
The Laffey on the other hand we have pretty good reports from (although they conflict, we can still compare them both). On the low side she absorbed 64,433lbs of hell from the skies (and from her own munitions cooking off), on the high side... 92,223lbs. Either way, that's more punishment than the Yamato took (47,475lbs) and possibly more than the Musashi took (42,700-68,200lbs) and is to this day the most damage taken by any one warship in history during the same incident. Now consider that the ship took on half her weight in water (when her design limit was 10%, a fault of the Sumners that was fixed in the Gearings), never lost power, and kept shooting until the end... despite the fact that the engine rooms were flooded, rudders were jammed 35 degrees to port (IIRC), the forward ammunition rooms were on fire (and at risk of exploding), powder room 53 (rear turret) did explode (by many reasonable accounts), and she had no form of internal or external communications ship wide (so damage control was entirely uncoordinated).
...Sorry, the Laffey is my favorite US ship and the one I'm dying to see in Kanmusu form. (No, not that horrible Shimakaze ripoff thats been floating around)
NWSiaCB said:
Basically, the difference in DAMCON was like making American carriers into the equivalent of Japanese battleships.
[joke]...I dunno, the Jap BBs didn't have a very good survival rate (1, Nagato). Comparatively, we only lost 4 fleet carriers (Lexington, Yorktown, Hornet, Wasp).[/joke]
MajorAmiruddin said:
This is why Enterprise got the nickname Grey Ghost because, time and time the Japanese think they sunk her but she comes back for more.
And, of course, the later Lexington (the Blue Ghost) was the queen of that (some 7-9 times), down to the point that the Japanese swore after the war that they thought we were just producing replacement carriers that fast (it didn't help that we actually were capable of doing that, see Yorktown/Hornet/Wasp/Lexington herself).
For some reason I get the feeling Enterprise is more surprised at the inaccurate report while Saratoga is having a dumb blonde moment and is genuinely horrified that she has been sunk and no one told her.
For some reason I get the feeling Enterprise is more surprised at the inaccurate report while Saratoga is having a dumb blonde moment and is genuinely horrified that she has been sunk and no one told her.
AND Laffey was there at operation crossroads. Not as a target ship mind you, but still got irradiated to hell. After some decontamination the ship was still sent back into service up to about 1975.
The ship still even exists as a museum ship. Some years ago it started rusting out, but survived that too with a huge loan from the state to fix her up. It got the nickname "The Ship That Would Not Die" for very obvious reasons.
AND Laffey was there at operation crossroads. Not as a target ship mind you, but still got irradiated to hell. After some decontamination the ship was still sent back into service up to about 1975.
I keep that in mind (in my head cannon, she would recognize the reparation trio off the bat), but many people don't seem to consider that as valid damage.
According to some sources, she was actually closer to the epicenters than some of the ships that sunk from them. So, if those accounts are to be believed (which is up in the air, in my opinion), the Laffey actually survived 2 nukes as well.
...Take that Yamato, you really got shown up by more than just three US destroyers (Hoel, Johnston, and Heermann), it was no fluke.
Hoobajoob said:
The ship still even exists as a museum ship. Some years ago it started rusting out, but survived that too with a huge loan from the state to fix her up. It got the nickname "The Ship That Would Not Die" for very obvious reasons.
Unfortunately, the rate things are going, you can expect that she'll be sinking at her moorings again within 7-10 years, and that time there won't be several dozen vets out on the trail to save her. The Patriot's Point crew is pretty much stretched thin and all the money goes to the Yorktown (who is also apparently developing cracks in her hull)... seriously, have you seen the USS Clamagore? More rust than steel and more hole than rust...
