"Et tu, Kokoro?"

Tough luck, Crown Prince.

All these pictures are the same shit. Miko and friends get their ass kicked yada yada yada it can't be a war if one side is fucking doomed from the start.
There is no VS if one side doesn't even stand a chance.

Perhaps I worded it wrong in the commentary. The artist means that if there's a serious scene that might follow this, then that's what he thinks may happen

Also,

Skylander said:
There is no VS if one side doesn't even stand a chance.

When was that ever said?

monhan said:

Perhaps I worded it wrong in the commentary. The artist means that if there's a serious scene that might follow this, then that's what he thinks may happen

Also,

When was that ever said?

I think it's mostly implied. A super-powered magician, a brawler duo, a tough sailor, the avatar of the god of war, and a tactician vs. Strategist prince, wicked hermit, arsonist, furious thunder ghost and the dark arts mask youkai.
In a whole battleground the fight could be even, but in close combat the taoists are more or less curbstomped.

Skylander said:

All these pictures are the same shit. Miko and friends get their ass kicked yada yada yada it can't be a war if one side is fucking doomed from the start.
There is no VS if one side doesn't even stand a chance.

So you're saying that you don't enjoy the Globetrotters?

Skylander said:

All these pictures are the same shit. Miko and friends get their ass kicked yada yada yada it can't be a war if one side is fucking doomed from the start.
There is no VS if one side doesn't even stand a chance.

Thank you. So sick of this. Where did people ever get the idea that Miko and Co. are pushovers, and that Byakuren's crew are super-powered gods?
And it's Noise-111 too! You're supposed to be the odd one out! Remember Skyscraper of Desire? What happened, man?

Zaku_Zelo said:

Thank you. So sick of this. Where did people ever get the idea that Miko and Co. are pushovers, and that Byakuren's crew are super-powered gods?
And it's Noise-111 too! You're supposed to be the odd one out! Remember Skyscraper of Desire? What happened, man?

I'm always on Byakuren's side, so you may not consider what I'll say here. Personally, I don't see the Taoists as pushovers. They are powerful in their own right, but so are the Myouren crews, which actually are super-powered youkai and individuals. Just not gods, but that doesn't change much.
Whether one side totally powns the other or not is all the viewer's own judgment, especially on situations where they're shown as even like in this picture.

And perhaps to answer your question, Kokoro happened. It's even in the description.

monhan said:

I'm always on Byakuren's side, so you may not consider what I'll say here. Personally, I don't see the Taoists as pushovers. They are powerful in their own right, but so are the Myouren crews, which actually are super-powered youkai and individuals. Just not gods, but that doesn't change much.
Whether one side totally powns the other or not is all the viewer's own judgment, especially on situations where they're shown as even like in this picture.

And perhaps to answer your question, Kokoro happened. It's even in the description.

Are they? Byakuren's a house, yeah, but Shou's a wuss without the pagoda, and Nazrin and Kyouko are pretty low-tier. So how tough are Murasa and Ichirin, really?
And I know it's up to the viewer and all that, but you can't deny that art of this rivalry is mostly Myouren favored. That's what I'm mad about!

I don't follow the Kokoro bit.

Zaku_Zelo said:

Are they? Byakuren's a house, yeah, but Shou's a wuss without the pagoda, and Nazrin and Kyouko are pretty low-tier. So how tough are Murasa and Ichirin, really?
And I know it's up to the viewer and all that, but you can't deny that art of this rivalry is mostly Myouren favored. That's what I'm mad about!

I don't follow the Kokoro bit.

Sorry for not responding right away, but I'll try to make this not turn into a powerlevel discussion.

Regarding Shou, though it's true that it's said in SoPM that most of her powers came from the pagoda and that she only use her spear like a walking stick. But neither of those means that Shou herself is not "strong", strength-wise. In fact, it would be weird if she's not, as she is a high-level youkai, and we know "low-tier" youkai are physically stronger than your average humans. She may not have much power without the pagoda, but you don't want to get hit by her.
And I won't exactly call her a wuss. People often forget that she is actually really competent because of fanon.

Nazrin is more of a tactical fighter. And though she's best outside of the battlefield, she's capable of fending for herself when need to. She only avoids battles because of her nature as a coward.

Ichirin and Unzan, let's see how can I make this quick. For starters, she's powerful enough to be a match to Futo from the Taoist side in HM. And hopefully we agree that she and Unzan are physically strong, no doubt about it.
And Murasa is supposed to be around their level, either weaker or stronger. But she definitely will be a nightmare with large bodies of water around, and against something sinkable. Plus, with that anchor, I think it's alright to say that she also has the strength.

Anyway, what I'm saying that the Myouren crews are mostly individuals with super strength and durability. They didn't make Buddhism represents the melee in HM for no reason.
The shikaisens have the durability and powers(magical one), but I don't think they have much in the muscles department. So if this was to be a wrestling or any physical match, don't find it weird if one side is winning easily. But in this picture, that's not the case and both sides can take the win. So this isn't exactly a place for us to argue.

I never said I deny that the Myouren crews are often portrayed as having the edge in most of them. It's obvious just from looking at them. And as their supporter I'm not sure how to comment on that without making you feel bad.
But perhaps, if it can make you feel better about it, pay attention to how the Taoists get the short stick most of the times.

Hopefully, these can satisfy you.

Skylander said:

All these pictures are the same shit. Miko and friends get their ass kicked yada yada yada it can't be a war if one side is fucking doomed from the start.
There is no VS if one side doesn't even stand a chance.

I think this is probably because Miko is an awfully proud person, and it's fun to see her knocked down from her pedestal.

As to Ichirin's "level", she did face and defeat Unzan (not physically, of course) and subjugated him as a young human girl. She could be very powerful, but just isn't respected all that much, what with her backstory and changes in HM coming too little, too late. Ichirin + Unzan I imagine could go blow for blow with Yuugi and the like before falling.

Miko is a big perception thing. Byakuren is a more physical sort who was given the stature and Boobs of Steel to match and was made a member of the similarly powerful Old Maids Alliance by fans almost as soon as she was introduced. Moreso, she came first and is simply more popular than Miko.

Then, Miko comes along. And while she is more politician and tactician than anything, fans also conveniently forget whatever superhuman abilities she has as a result of her hermit transformation and sainthood. We don't know *exactly* what they are, granted, but it's hinted she has them and they are likely abilities that could conceivably put her on the same level with Byakuren physically, making it an even match, but which are either forgotten or ignored because of the above.

UTW said:

...

Ichirin didn't subjugate him, she only said the only thing that could "defeat" a nyuudou (anyone could do it if they were smart enough), and he decided on his own to protect her. I'm not even sure she could put up a fight without Unzan protecting her ass.

The reason Miko is lowly perceived is probably because her named ability (listening to desires) sounds really lame compared to the named abilities of most other characters.
However, while it's true that she probably has some weird hermit powers, we can't just make up that she can do *this* or *that* without proofs. Even Akyuu, that "supposedly" exaggerates things, didn't make her sound that impressive.

UTW said:
Then, Miko comes along. And while she is more politician and tactician than anything, fans also conveniently forget whatever superhuman abilities she has as a result of her hermit transformation and sainthood. We don't know *exactly* what they are, granted, but it's hinted she has them and they are likely abilities that could conceivably put her on the same level with Byakuren physically, making it an even match, but which are either forgotten or ignored because of the above.

What I get from that explanation in SoPM, is that the Crown Prince's superhuman abilities lean more towards the non-physical kind, like super-hearing, intelligence and stuff, further boosting her natural talents. This is also because the Tao medicines she used throughout her life made her body weaker. The only physical thing she's good at is the tough body that every other Shikaisen also have. So she's neither strong or fast, but is still above that of the average humans. She makes that up with variety of skills and extraordinary magical power.

Actually, the same can be said to apply on Byakuren's other abilities as well. People seems to forget that even with all her physical prowess, she's a "great" magician. She has countless spells recorded in that scroll, and not all of them are buffing spells as we can see throughout UFO, DS, HM, and ISC. I believe when it comes to versatility, she's nothing to be taken lightly either.

In short, they are pretty even, depending on how you want to match them up. Problem is, the fandom tends to pit them in a physical fight, so don't be surprised with how those all often ends.

Toyosatomimi no Miko: True Neutral shikaisen, Aristocrat 1/Diviner 13
Mononobe no Futo: Chaotic Neutral hermit, Aristocrat 1/Evoker 11
Soga no Tojiko: Lawful Neutral ghost, Aristocrat 1/Evoker 11
Kaku Seiga: Neutral Evil fallen hermit, Necromancer 15
Miyako Yoshika: True Neutral advanced zombie, monk 10

Hijiri Byakuren: Neutral Good female magician, Cleric 3/Transmuter 3/Mystic Theurge 8
Toramaru Shou: Lawful Good female tiger youkai, Favored Soul of Bishamonten 13
Murasa Minamitsu: Chaotic Neutral ship phantom, Fighter 11
Kumoi Ichirin: Chaotic Good youkai, Sohei 11
Unzan: Chaotic Neutral nyuudou, Monk 11
Nazrin: True Neutral mouse youkai, Rogue 10
Kyouko: Chaotic Neutral yamabiko, Bard 2

I hope this helps to end all discussion about which of these groups would win in a fight.