This scene would have been a thousand times more heartbreaking if they inserted something like this.
It would make Homura seem less antagonistic toward the other characters if they at least alluded more that she truly cared about saving all of them instead of just solely Madoka.
Primoman said: This scene would have been a thousand times more heartbreaking if they inserted something like this.
It would make Homura seem less antagonistic toward the other characters if they at least alluded more that she truly cared about saving all of them instead of just solely Madoka.
Eh, she's a 14-year-old girl who's getting more and more desperate after all her attempts to work with the others ended terribly. She's in a really fragile state by the last time line and would have turned into a witch if it hadn't been for Madoka saving her at the last minute. I can't fault her too much for cutting a few corners to achieve her main objective.
Primoman said: This scene would have been a thousand times more heartbreaking if they inserted something like this.
It would make Homura seem less antagonistic toward the other characters if they at least alluded more that she truly cared about saving all of them instead of just solely Madoka.
What? She tried that though, they show it explicitly. Saving Madoka is her core, sole focus, but it's not like she just went full aggressive in loop 2, quite the contrary. She tried the whole nice thing, didn't work. She tried telling them the truth. Result? Called a liar, Sayaka goes nuts like always (and she tends to go super self-destructive really fast too), they win, Mami goes bonkers and decides to kill everyone immediately, and would have killed Homura *and* Madoka, thus ending all her chances for good, had Madoka not killed her first (which in turn caused Madoka even more despair).
I think the show was pretty balanced in that respect. She wasn't actively hostile, but mildly antagonistic and aloof seems pretty reasonable by that point. She did have good memories of world 0 and loop 1, but there was plenty more less pleasant memories mixed in.
Also I think what's left unsaid can be the most powerful of all. I like this picture, but if they'd used it in the show it would have been out of character in terms of un-subtlety, like beating your audience on the head with This Is Tragic.
zanon said: What? She tried that though, they show it explicitly. Saving Madoka is her core, sole focus, but it's not like she just went full aggressive in loop 2, quite the contrary. She tried the whole nice thing, didn't work. She tried telling them the truth. Result? Called a liar, Sayaka goes nuts like always (and she tends to go super self-destructive really fast too), they win, Mami goes bonkers and decides to kill everyone immediately, and would have killed Homura *and* Madoka, thus ending all her chances for good, had Madoka not killed her first (which in turn caused Madoka even more despair).
Well my statement applies to the Homura after that timeline. Her wording strongly implies that she's given up bothering to help anyone besides Madoka, and her attitude also establishes that as well.
I'm all for subtlety, but it would have been nice to have one final image like this to show that deep down she still cares about the other characters, and while she may have given up on saving them in order to change Madoka's fate (which was more about cruel necessity than bitter resentment), they still have an important place in her heart.
I'm really hoping she's more open with the three girls in the third film. She has no reason to be as antagonistic, other than that the fans really like the aloof, uncaring Homura.
Primoman said: Well my statement applies to the Homura after that timeline. Her wording strongly implies that she's given up bothering to help anyone besides Madoka, and her attitude also establishes that as well.
I'm all for subtlety, but it would have been nice to have one final image like this to show that deep down she still cares about the other characters, and while she may have given up on saving them in order to change Madoka's fate (which was more about cruel necessity than bitter resentment), they still have an important place in her heart.
I'm really hoping she's more open with the three girls in the third film. She has no reason to be as antagonistic, other than that the fans really like the aloof, uncaring Homura.
I think you're missing the hole point of Homura's character. Yes at first she might seem antagonistic, but that's only because she's trying to seem antagonistic so the other girls stop fighting. Really if you look at it Homura never actually attacks the other girls, she just tells them to stay out of her way. She was going to help Mami fight charlotte, she encourage Madoka AND Sayaka not to become magical girls, and even tries to break up the fight between Kyouko and Sayaka. Yeah she threatens to kill Sayaka later but that seemed like a last resort thing to prevent the whole witchification. I'm sure Madoka was a factor in all these decision but if Homura truly didn't care about the others she would have skipped all that trouble and just killed everyone but Madoka.
Well you could argue she's only doing those things so they don't inconvenience her plan to save Madoka.
When she attempts to talk down Sayaka in episode 8, it's done in a really half-assed manner that Sayaka immediately picks upon. You could justify that as the result of Homura having terrible people skills (which was apparent even in the original timeline), but more than a few people look at it and think she doesn't care whatsoever if she dies (the dub even added the line "I don't give a damn if you die", which personally I'm against as it's a bit too strong of an expression for Homura).
My point is: showing something like the above image once in a while wouldn't diminish Homura's character or kill any subtlety: it's heart-warming, that's all there is to it.
Primoman said: I'm all for subtlety, but it would have been nice to have one final image like this to show that deep down she still cares about the other characters, and while she may have given up on saving them in order to change Madoka's fate (which was more about cruel necessity than bitter resentment), they still have an important place in her heart.
I think you're ascribing more importance then there really is or would make sense. All the more reason though that they should leave it up to each individual viewer to decide, rather then take away the thinking!
I'm really hoping she's more open with the three girls in the third film. She has no reason to be as antagonistic, other than that the fans really like the aloof, uncaring Homura.
Wait what? Didn't we just go over numerous reasons that she does have to feel a certain degree of antagonism? Did you just blow off that whole bit? Kyouko is overall pretty reasonable, but Sayaka and Mami at least act very high and mighty when Homura knows for an actual fact that neither of them can handle it at all when the shit hits the fan.
Primoman said: Well you could argue she's only doing those things so they don't inconvenience her plan to save Madoka.
When she attempts to talk down Sayaka in episode 8, it's done in a really half-assed manner that Sayaka immediately picks upon. You could justify that as the result of Homura having terrible people skills (which was apparent even in the original timeline), but more than a few people look at it and think she doesn't care whatsoever if she dies (the dub even added the line "I don't give a damn if you die", which personally I'm against as it's a bit too strong of an expression for Homura).
My point is: showing something like the above image once in a while wouldn't diminish Homura's character or kill any subtlety: it's heart-warming, that's all there is to it.
Like a said you can argue that Homura did all that stuff solely for Madoka, but again it would be MUCH easier for Homura if she just killed everyone minus of course Madoka. Actually she could probably just take out Kyouko and Mami and Madoka would never know, making the whole process much easier, but she didn't.
For the Sayaka thing I'm almost positive that Homura knew there was nothing she could say to save Sayaka at that point, both Madoka and Kyouko tried to calm her down in very nice ways yet she blew them off. Homura negotiation with Sayaka was probably insincere because she knows Sayaka's too pigheaded to listen to others. This was shown all the time especially in episode 10, when she refused to believe Homura was telling the truth, she even admits as much "I'm such a fool". Really the most merciful thing Homura could have done at that point was kill her, less she suffer as witch and end up taking Kyouko with her.
As for the image thing, the last image of the series shows all the girls together if that helps
