Posted under General
New blood is required. It's been around 2 years since the last batch of janitors was recruited.
It may be worth discussing whether approval limits are a good idea. Should approvers be limited to 100 approvals a month? I think once a broader base of active janitors is established it may be tenable.
albert said:
New blood is required. It's been around 2 years since the last batch of janitors was recruited.
It may be worth discussing whether approval limits are a good idea. Should approvers be limited to 100 approvals a month? I think once a broader base of active janitors is established it may be tenable.
On the off chance an approval limit is implemented, it might be wise to poll the current approvers about just how many images they approve on a given day. I have the sneaking suspicion that 100 might be a little too high.
Can't say I'm too keen on an approval cap, but I'm one of those with a high number of approvals per month, so definitely bias in my opinion. I can see value in having it make approvers pickier in their selections, but it could potentially make approvers overly frugal with their approvals. Especially so given that their approvals will determine whether or not they will be able to approve stuff down the road. It would definitely likely cut into comics, particularly anything with more than a few pages.
If such a limit did exist though, then it should be something that gets adjusted based on the average number of uploads per month (that go through the mod queue) of the last 3 months or something, and the ability to determine if its trending up to add more slots for the new month if necessary. Any hard set limit would only best be as a minimum value for such a formula, at least in my opinion.
Still I have a hard time imagining only essentially being able to approve around 3-4 images a day.
Based on approval counts in the janitor trial report and some of the preliminary numbers we're crunching in topic #11864, I think there are, in fact, people who can be trusted to approve about 600~1000 posts per month while generally maintaining reasonable quality (say, generally better than 25%~33% of comparable posts within peer groups). zigzag and Ephyon are a good examples of this.
If you must impose a limit, then instead of a hard cap, maybe have three or four levels (say, 100, 250, 500, 1000) and adjust accordingly. This is also useful for phasing in new approvers because you could ramp them up gradually.
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How about a formula of some kind, like the one for user uploads? An approval cap could work like the upload cap: a formula with a fixed starting number for everyone, and with slots gained for good uploads approved, and slots lost for bad/flagged and deleted uploads approved.
It might not be such a bad idea, especially for newly-appointed approvers that haven't been tested.
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No approval limits. This isn't like the ability to upload pictures which is given to every member on the site when they sign up, this is a special privilege that is earned. Should they become something much worse than NOOS, remove that privilege. It's also one that is of higher importance than say comment moderating or wiki moderating.
I could see maybe limiting approvals to 5/day for the first week so someone doesn't accidentally approve the entire queue and 50/day for the first 2 months to make sure they aren't approving garbage but but implementing a mod-wide approval limit will just discourage people from approving comics and force people to go "I can't approve this because I'm near my limit for the day but I know x will approve it so I'll let them do it" which is exactly as ridiculous as it sounds.
D'Eye said:
We could just fire a single guy,
And then have half the good content on most unpopular copyrights completely forgotten as it doesn't specifically interest any janitor, forcing people to also check Pixiv lest they miss several images they would like to see, essentially making Danbooru next to useless. Well, at least it would be a step away from being Pixiv re-host with tags
I'm not fond of a number of copyrights, but I'll specifically approve any images that demonstrably have good technique behind them, even if they're from those ones. That said, every approver has their own preferences. It should be a reasonable mixture of both, but it is really a personal choice thing.
I care very little about what the copyright is (and I like to think I stay away from the two most popular, most of the time).
People tend to disregard that the so-called unpopular copyrights tend to have genuinely crap drawings (or if not crap, overly simplistic, with weird coloring and very often really weirdly done faces) behind them more often than not. I'm not going to lower my bias for them just because they are unpopular.
And I stamp a fat 'no' on the limits, unless we want to hinder comic traffic (Which I don't give a toss about personally, but it is a concern to be had. Limiting comic uploads only to contributors sounds reviling.)
There are above 12000 posts in general uploaded within first two weeks of this month (which would be ~25000 for the full month). Let's for a moment disregard the presence of contributor rank. How good would 48 approvers work if they only had 100 approvals/month in that scenario? If a post approved by one janitor got flagged and then approved by someone else, would it free the slot for them, since they kind of lose the approval flag on it?
I review the entire queue except things on my blacklist, which include drug use, abuse, huge_breasts, dickgirls, potty sex, samples, a few memes, Haruhi, Yuu-Gi-Oh, RWBY, and a few games I don't want spoilered. I start with a status:pending+-comic+-screencap search to catch nice looking new "standard" works, then go to the modqueue to go through the backend again. I generally ignore comics because I don't personally want to approve a whole batch to later find out some pages in the middle were a mess (I did this with an upload once and it still kinda stings me), so I only approve the ones I regularly read, most of which are either uploaded by contributors or approved before I get there. I don't think I count as a "saviour of the content" though, because I'm very picky about images. If they have a weird face or hands or extremely simple shading, I'm probably not interested.
All I really see an approval limit doing is giving people more of an excuse to sit behind the "my image must've just been completely unnoticed in the modqueue" idea, excepting adding "I guess the people that loved my upload must've not been able to approve it."
Seems to me it'd be useful to solicit and consider private reports given by other users, probably those already promoted; perhaps encourage standard users to contact promoted users in the same way to filter the load down on admin. Basically, there's lots of us using the site that have the tools to notice when somebody's doing something weird. Mechanically filter out the inactives, perhaps use the generated reports to find suspects, but have your humans find your outliers for you. If a user shows up golden in the machine reports but there's swaths of people complaining about them, they warrant a review. If there's an exceedingly quality uploader that a decent size group of people agree is Approver material, they warrant review. In the end it all comes down to Admin decision, but I feel users might be an underutilized resource.
The User Feedback section kinda does this, but it currently feels like it's not used enough in both directions; if someone sees that a user already has a Good mark for something, they're less likely to give another. If someone wants to leave a Bad remark they may hesitate out of not wanting a confrontation or their opinion publicized.
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I am against approval limits EXCEPT for cases where someone is under review. That way there have to be pickier with they approve.
As for unpopular copyrights, I don't know how big of an issue that is. I just go through the queue and look at images, and personally, I like looking for things I haven't seen before. I can't imagine this is unique. The issue with copyrights is that there are a lot of comics for both touhou and kantai collection, along with ongoing webcomics.
Other than being stricter on comic quality, I don't see how approvals can be tweaked.
MagicalAsparagus said:
I don't understand. Does no single other janitor approve posts basing on quality rather than on whether they are interested in the copyright or not?.. I thought most people approve posts out of quality considerations, isn't it just logical?
So far as I know, janitors approve copyright they aren't interested in only if the art is really good, and if it's 7/10 it always ends up with you-know-who
Borrator said:
Instead of searching for complex algorithms to weigh the score, how about weeding out approvers based on how many of their approvals got subsequently flagged and deleted? In the end, that's exactly what we don't want them to do: approve posts that need to be flagged afterwards.
The problem with this is that now that everyone and their dog has approval rights, nothing can ever actually get deleted ever again.
See this scat guro image that has already been approved by three separate people, including the person who started this "we need to fire some of these approvers" stuff in the first place. Apparently, even when something gets negative scores and multiple flags, it doesn't matter, so long as there's now a legion of people ready to re-approve it who don't give a damn about Danbooru never accepting scat porn or extreme guro.
To jump on the defensive bandwagon I approve what I feel is good art, flat out. I mean I hate Vocaloid, like a lot. That hasn't stopped me from approving or uploading a good chunk of Vocaloid stuff. Skimming through my approvals for more stuff I don't care about or actively dislike I see; Youkai Watch, IdolM@ster, Inazuma Eleven, Touken Ranbu, dudes getting rude, Dead or Alive, ect. Take all that for what you think it's worth I suppose.
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Saladofstones said:
I am against approval limits EXCEPT for cases where someone is under review. That way there have to be pickier with they approve.
I agree with this myself. I don't see a point of approval limits except when the person constantly approves/uploads subpar work.
