To no-one's surprise, Genshin Impact is ruining braided_ponytail

BUR #22547 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

mass update ~raiden_shogun ~shenhe_(genshin_impact) braided_ponytail -alternate_hairstyle -> -braided_ponytail low-braided_long_hair

This is a braided_ponytail. Neither Raiden Shogun (post #6676911) nor Shenhe (post #7103099) have braided ponytails, and yet they've managed to rack up over 5000 posts with the tag anyway. This can be directly traced to their awful "tag dump" style wikis and the recently axed wiki tags feature - when both of their wikis were edited to incorrectly list their hairstyles as braided ponytails, it slowly poisoned every upload as users blindly spammed wiki tags without a thought in the world as to whether they were even correct.

...but that's enough belly-aching about a problem we already hurled straight into the sun. What do we do about this currently un-fixed problem? Well, as long as we make a favgroup of the relatively small amount of legitimate ~raiden_shogun ~shenhe_(genshin_impact) braided_ponytail posts, then it's a very simple matter to just exclude that favgroup from the BUR. However, I grow weary of tag gardening, I don't care about Genshin Impact at all, and none of this was even my fault - so if someone else could search for those legitimate posts and make the favgroup, I would be forever grateful. That being said, if I come back in a couple of weeks and nobody has bothered, I will just bite the bullet and do it myself. Even though I would really prefer not to.

If you do decide to help out and make the favgroup, then make sure to leave a reply in this thread before you start. I would hate for more than one of you to end up doing the same work and wasting your own time.

The mass update should be adding low-braided_long_hair instead of low-tied_long_hair. The latter is only used for straight hair according to its wiki.

Blank_User said:

The mass update should be adding low-braided_long_hair instead of low-tied_long_hair. The latter is only used for straight hair according to its wiki.

You're right about the BUR, but for the wrong reasons. While it is better for tag granularity to instead mass update the posts to low-braided_long_hair, that low-tied_long_hair wiki clause is not being followed and for good reason. I've submitted a low-braided_long_hair -> low-tied_long_hair implication request in topic #26034.

I don't think it's exclusive to Genshin, I've seen a few specter (arknights) posts tagged with braided ponytail too. And to be frank I didn't knew low-braided long hair was a thing until now, I was searching for that hairstyle some day ago.

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

The bulk update request #22547 (forum #265659) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Gonna be honest, I'm struggling to find any actual braided ponytail in braided ponytail. It's all low-braided long hair.

nonamethanks said:

Gonna be honest, I'm struggling to find any actual braided ponytail in braided ponytail. It's all low-braided long hair.

post #5873797: low_ponytail (*edit: ignore the braided sidelock)
post #5871401: "braided_ponytail", or "low-braided_ponytail" by regular ponytail standard
Raiden Shogun: very low-braided_long_hair

Well, I definitely want to keep the second and third posts separate. low-braided_long_hair is the braided counterpart of low-tied_long_hair. This means regular ponytail has 4 tags but braided ponytail only has 3.

So then, I realize the whole time we're missing "low-braided_ponytail" (beside low_twin_braids) if we care to separate braids starting from back of head and top of neck.

nonamethanks said:

Gonna be honest, I'm struggling to find any actual braided ponytail in braided ponytail. It's all low-braided long hair.

they're out there - post #7243416 is one example

nanashi3 said:

post #5873797: low_ponytail
post #5871401: "braided_ponytail", or "low-braided_ponytail" by regular ponytail standard
Raiden Shogun: very low-braided_long_hair

post #5871401 is not a braided ponytail. A braided ponytail is a ponytail that is braided. That post has no ponytail.

nonamethanks said:

post #5871401 is not a braided ponytail. A braided ponytail is a ponytail that is braided. That post has no ponytail.

Then what is it? Only other option is calling it low_braid but that's deprecated for sounding ambiguous. And single braid just means there's one braid which may be anywhere. The name low-braided_ponytail (not a tag yet) is chosen for intuitiveness despite being supposedly incorrect in literal meaning.

Is low ponytail a ponytail? short_ponytail when combined with low_ponytail e.g. post #7188169 is less ponytail-like but the tagging is useful.

(General reference for thread: post #7042129 is "an actual braided ponytail".)

nanashi3 said:

Then what is it? Only other option is calling it low_braid but that's deprecated for sounding ambiguous. And single braid just means there's one braid which may be anywhere. The name low-braided_ponytail (not a tag yet) is chosen for intuitiveness despite being supposedly incorrect in literal meaning.

Is low ponytail a ponytail? short_ponytail when combined with low_ponytail e.g. post #7188169 is less ponytail-like but the tagging is useful.

An actual braided ponytail would be tied at the top like the one I posted. It can be at any height on the head but it's done by tying a ponytail and then braiding it rather than just braiding the hair like the example you posted, which is basically just a standard single braid hairstyle.

Of course, on danbooru it can be hard to tell - something like post #7116545 could conceivably be either, although based on the angle the hair comes off the head it being tagged braided ponytail is probably right..

skylightcrystal said:

An actual braided ponytail would be tied at the top like the one I posted. It can be at any height on the head but it's done by tying a ponytail and then braiding it rather than just braiding the hair like the example you posted, which is basically just a standard single braid hairstyle.

[....]

Sounds nitpicky. So add a hair tie or scrunchie like post #3495583 then it's a real braided ponytail? (And don't start the braid before the hanging part.)

Okay, understandable, but this doesn't change the fact that single braid is a poopoo tag regarding starting height and we're missing a low-braided_ponytail, and if we were to make it, then post #5871401 may as well be added to it "for tagging purposes".

nanashi3 said:

Okay, understandable, but this doesn't change the fact that single braid is a poopoo tag regarding starting height and we're missing a low-braided_ponytail, and if we were to make it, then post #5871401 may as well be added to it "for tagging purposes".

Tags exist primarily to search, not to categorize. braided ponytail (in theory) exists to find braided ponytails. If you start adding stuff that is not braided ponytails in it because if you distort the definition enough it could fit, then you're misusing the tag. It's not a matter of "if this is not single braid then it's braided ponytail". If a post can't be fit in one tag you shouldn't ruin another tag just to put it somewhere else.

nonamethanks said:

Tags exist primarily to search, not to categorize. braided ponytail (in theory) exists to find braided ponytails. If you start adding stuff that is not braided ponytails in it because if you distort the definition enough it could fit, then you're misusing the tag. It's not a matter of "if this is not single braid then it's braided ponytail". If a post can't be fit in one tag you shouldn't ruin another tag just to put it somewhere else.

A braid is inherently self-tying at the base. A ponytail hairstyle simply requires a tie to achieve the form the name is referring to. An actual pony's tail doesn't need to be tied.

The tag is "ruined" by the user base when it comes to your own definition. I never said single braid doesn't apply, but that it applies to too many things.

If we consider braided ponytail to be "any single braid that encompasses the majority of hair (= that isn't a side braid or some other tags I can't remember)", that makes the braided ponytail tag way too broad. (In my opinion) It should be limited to *at least* braids that are tied at the scalp; if not to specifically ones placed high on the head.

Semi-offtop, but what should Amane Tsukasa (Swimsuit ver.)'s hairstyle be tagged with? She has, like, a proper high braided ponytail, except there's two of them coming out of one spot.

KagayakuShiningGate said:

If we consider braided ponytail to be "any single braid that encompasses the majority of hair (= that isn't a side braid or some other tags I can't remember)", that makes the braided ponytail tag way too broad. (In my opinion) It should be limited to *at least* braids that are tied at the scalp; if not to specifically ones placed high on the head.

Semi-offtop, but what should Amane Tsukasa (Swimsuit ver.)'s hairstyle be tagged with? She has, like, a proper high braided ponytail, except there's two of them coming out of one spot.

1. Don't overthink it. If you can mspaint a little ribbon on it and have it called a ponytail, it's a ponytail. By definition it comes out from a point at the scalp, yes. In some cases, you can't see the back of the head to see what's tying it. For example, straight-on like post #7128821 you'd be crazy not to tag ponytail (I won't buy a "obviously plain hair isn't going to tie itself" argument).
2. If you want something more specific than twin braids and possibly high braid, you could possibly make up something like split_ponytail. EDIT: split ponytail exists (thought I checked). Maybe split_braided_ponytail or stick with the former (it doesn't implicate anything).

Interestingly there are African hairstyles involving many braids/dreadlocks bundled into a ponytail. Multiple braids alone wouldn't describe the ponytail form. I can then search dreadlocks ~ponytail ~braided_ponytail for something like post #6373237, visibility of a hair tie be damned.

Not sure if I've seen an indisputably true french braid on Danbooru before. Image search. Two large braids strewn across the head travel down and may form a braided ponytail or twin braids, or even just twintails in this example (nice) which uses hair to tie itself.

The concept isn't complicated. A ponytail of any kind is most hair gathered to a point against the scalp and allowed to hang freely from that point. This is not too general, and is way more meaningful than single braid which would exclude dreadlocks. The tie is not what defines a ponytail. The ones that go out the side are side ponytail/braid; sidelocks are sidelocks. And, ad nauseum, those tied /gathered lower are low-tied/braided long hair. Main issue remaining is the lack of a low braid counterpart of low ponytail.

A braided ponytail is an actual hairstyle, with an actual meaning to it. It's not a term danbooru or even the anime fandom came up with.

It stands to reason that people searching for it are looking for that actual hairstyle, and not a completely different hairstyle that has a bit of a visual resemblance to it but which is nonetheless different enough visually to almost always be able to tell them apart

skylightcrystal said:

A braided ponytail is an actual hairstyle, with an actual meaning to it. It's not a term danbooru or even the anime fandom came up with.

It stands to reason that people searching for it are looking for that actual hairstyle, and not a completely different hairstyle that has a bit of a visual resemblance to it but which is nonetheless different enough visually to almost always be able to tell them apart

Sources? Do most google image results just not count (aside for most of them being Black for some reason)? On another look, I notice some of these use their own hair to loop around itself once to form a "knot" before hanging freely. I assume most artists either have never worn a braid or are missing one detail.

Would everyone outside this thread understand what you all mean without any examples listed in the wiki what do or don't count, and agree with that? Sounds like you're making it up as well. Somehow post #7116545 (your example) gets a semi-pass for being obscured from view but post #5871401 doesn't because it's side view?

Perhaps single_back_braid (bad/weird name) would more useful than single_braid, to differentiate from side braid, sidelocks, or the ones from bangs tucked behind ear.

When I look at Google Images, I predominantly see either A) high ponytail styles that feature many small braids (example), B) styles that are indeed supposed to fall under braided_ponytail on Danbooru (high ponytails consisting of one braid; example), C) lower braids that hide the spot where the braid connect to the scalp, in the same way it's common for "proper" ponytails (example.

Actual low braids that don't seem to be tied at the scalp, that you keep insisting should fall under braided_ponytail, are rare. Sure, there are some, but the three (but especially A and B) I mentioned before are the majority. Just like you have some examples like this when you google "braided ponytail", something we'd call ponytail + side_braid (or maybe crown_braid, but nevertheless, that's irrelevant).