...after all, instead of having "child on child" on porn posts, we would end up on having "loli on loli" on rating:G posts. young romance is kinda laughable if you see it on mating press pics, and I worry it would be used on teenager pics too with a name like that, but it's a step in the right direction.
Then how do you propose someone searches for any romantic interaction between visibly underage characters? That is, what do you propose as a replacement for child_on_child hetero and equivalent?
Then how do you propose someone searches for any romantic interaction between visibly underage characters? That is, what do you propose as a replacement for child_on_child hetero and equivalent?
The only possible outcome that I can see from a split like that is the exact same thing that happened with male child and female child: even more attention given to those tags to the point where we're forced to hide more borderline content for members.
The way I'd handle this is to give child on child a more inconspicuous name and wiki (removing, for example, references to sexual intercourse because anyone who searches for the tag or that kind of content already knows what it's for), and let it get hidden from prying eyes by virtue of being one of 30 tags in the taglist, not ruin the day of everyone who actually uses the tag.
There's no way to perfectly sugarcoat or sanitize this content, even just a picture of a perfectly safe rating:g child would be problematic because of who we are, and because someone opening the site is gonna see it right next to porn unless they're on safebooru. A "young romance" tag full of kids kissing would similarly still raise eyebrows on a porn site. Splitting the tag does nothing because safebooru already has better filters, and our users are autists who can't help themselves and who would edit war over anything, including these tags. The reason we've historically handled this through obscurity is because any attempt at "fixing" the problem just makes it worse because now everyone is acknowledging and bringing attention to it in every post.
If we're splitting strictly by whether there's sex(ual content), then the split doesn't solve the problem of child on child being problematic, because we'll still have tons of rating:s/loli-shota-adjacent posts in young romance. It will not be a "safer" tag when we have things like post #6462435 in it, which are already visible to everyone because they lack shota/loli (and of course there's the issue of androgynous 1others...). A "young romance" tag full of kids practicing french kisses is not a much better look than the status quo. If we're splitting by whether posts are rating:g, then not only is that useless to us, as safebooru already filters anything that's not rating:g, but the split would do nothing because child_on_child rating:g has 11 posts. The only thing we'd be achieving would be having to tag borderline posts with loli or shota, hiding them from members because we forced ourselves into saying something isn't safe enough for one tag so it must fall into another.
If you think for a moment about what all of this would entail you'll quickly realize how much of a mess it is and what kind of headaches would come out of it. male child/female child have already proven that nobody on this site has any idea what innocent means, I don't know why anyone would trust our users to get this proposed version of young romance right when those other two tags failed so spectacularly.
As for all the alternatives proposed in this thread, they all miss the point that hdk5 raised: that any alternative to not having the concept tagged would be objectively worse. Also, splitting the tag into shota on shota/loli on loli/loli on shota does nothing, and I'm not sure if they're much better: after all, instead of having "child on child" on porn posts, we would end up on having "loli on loli" on rating:G posts.
young romance is kinda laughable if you see it on mating press pics, and I worry it would be used on teenager pics too with a name like that, but it's a step in the right direction.
If splitting the tags is not the way to go, I propose renaming it to young love instead of young romance. "Love" is ambiguous enough to cover both romance and sex. They are "making love" in the mating press posts, after all.
Of course, young love would not be an appropriate tag name for things like child_on_child rape, but I can't think of any better solutions right now.
I doubt we'll be able to rename the tag to something that won't risk overtagging without drawing attention to the character's ages. I think risking overtagging is worth it in this case, but if we want something more conservative for now, we could alias it to child with child. As Nameless Contributor said earlier in the thread, it would put it in line with the other "A with B" tags. I also mentioned that "with" sounds less suggestive than "on." This probably wouldn't solve much, but the donmai.moe users will at least have a slightly less contentious tag to use without any chance of it being ruined for other users.
nonamethanks said:
It will not be a "safer" tag when we have things like post #6462435 in it, which are already visible to everyone because they lack shota/loli (and of course there's the issue of androgynous 1others...). A "young romance" tag full of kids practicing french kisses is not a much better look than the status quo.
That post has actually been tagged shota since it was uploaded and, considering the clear ass focus, I believe the shota tag is justified under our current rules. I also thought french kisses would be tagged loli/shota anyway since it isn't age appropriate despite not being an actual sex act.
That post has actually been tagged shota since it was uploaded and, considering the clear ass focus, I believe the shota tag is justified under our current rules. I also thought french kisses would be tagged loli/shota anyway since it isn't age appropriate despite not being an actual sex act.
I didn't notice the tag, but the post still stands: posts like that would still end up in a hypotetical young romance tag by the hundreds, making a split pointless if what we want is to have a safe tag.
The way I'd handle this is to give child on child a more inconspicuous name and wiki (removing, for example, references to sexual intercourse because anyone who searches for the tag or that kind of content already knows what it's for), and let it get hidden from prying eyes by virtue of being one of 30 tags in the taglist, not ruin the day of everyone who actually uses the tag.
Kodo hetero for shota/loli, Kodo yuri for loli/loli and Kodo yaoi for shota/shota
That sounds more appropriate as a censored tag for covering the *other* characters that can't be tagged loli or shota. The two entries listed describe attraction to both boys and girls, not relationships between them. And it would definitely be out of the question for G-rated posts.
I know I'm going back and forth on some of my positions, but I no longer think we should use child with child unless nuking is the only other viable option. With so few posts in G, I'm now leaning toward manually removing child on child from all G-rated posts and most S-rated posts (there may still be a few in S that qualify for G). If most people are going to use it for NSFW purposes anyway, we might as well make it fit the role completely. Searches such as child hetero rating:g should be enough to find innocent displays of affection between kids even if you have to deal with some noise from posts of parent couples.
There's still the issue of renaming the tag. I no longer support young love/romance as a new name because they would both clash badly with rape posts. I do have one more idea, though. We could try young with young. I realize it's a ridiculous name and some users may try to use it on teens, but the name closely matches the current tag and it should be easy for other users to figure out what it means.
That sounds more appropriate as a censored tag for covering the *other* characters that can't be tagged loli or shota. The two entries listed describe attraction to both boys and girls, not relationships between them. And it would definitely be out of the question for G-rated posts.
Yes, it's been in my head to utilized but I'm not sure how I would exactly apply it.
If we're to replace child with something more obscure Kodo could be that obscure term.
