Haselnuts said:
Just checked the image and it has Score: 22 / Favorites: 53. So are you telling me you and that flagger have godly taste when it comes to assessing the quality of picture while those 53 people who liked that picture enough to favorite them have a bad taste compared to you? That's not right and if you go on about flagging same thing even for this fact even though Mikaeri said its side note then I would call it what you say in simpler terms; abusing your powers and exploting the flagging system, that's all.
The score system really shouldn't be (and rarely is) regarded at all, especially when approving posts, since in the first three days, those scores are going to be in an extreme state of flux. (When you see something in the mod queue after it's only been on Danbooru for an hour, and an image might have a -1 score then, but have a 14 score two weeks later.)
I've used this example a lot recently, so why not again: This image and its child are virtually identical posts, but for the "bra layer" being transparent on one. One of those images, however (and you can guess which one without even looking) has a score significantly higher than the other. At the time of my first using it as an example, the scores were 1 and 10, respectively. Logically, if we're approving by score, shouldn't that mean we approve the topless one, and let the one with the bra on be deleted, even though there's no rational reason why the parent post should be deleted if the child is good enough?
The same goes for a wide variety of other conditions that have very little to do with actual quality or even whether people enjoy the post as part of Danbooru. Anything in a pool is likely to get less individual score because most score is by favorites, and who favorites every single page in a pool? Anything with a popular copyright (I.E. Touhou, KanColle, Fate, etc.) will have massively more views, and therefore higher score. Even among the same artist with consistent quality, the one image with a pantyshot will get twice the favorites, etc.
The system also incentivizes raising scores (by accident, via favorites), but does nothing to actually incentivize giving negative scores to things you don't like... and why are you going out looking for things you don't like just to give it negative scores (which don't matter, anyway) in the first place? Hence, there's an inherent bias towards anything that draws more views getting a higher score, even if it's severely controversial, since score really only goes up unless it's so terrible it's universally reviled, while low-view images have scores closer to zero, which is the functional floor.
Oh, and let's not forget that basic members don't affect score, only gold+ users do... so we're also talking about a bias towards those images favored by those who either contribute enough to get promoted on their own, or those who are willing to spend $20 to get the ability to see the loli images.
There's also the fact that favorites don't necessarily need to mean they like something. I know I've favorited things just because I wanted to 'bookmark' a conversation in the comments section before, and I similarly 'bookmark' where I am in pools that way.
Haselnuts said:
Edit: Just because you don't like one picture due to bad anatomy doesn't mean all other people on the site and in this community doesn't like it either. If you unyieldingly flag same post due to same reasons then you are nothing more than dictator who is trying to impose his ideals on others even though most of people doesn't agree with your quality standarts. It's either one side going win; the ones who are flagging and thinks they are better than common people on the site and the other common side who are dropping by the site for fun and liking the pictures just because artists created their works for fun. Remember we are not art critics or anything here and if you start to flag pictures that most people are complaining about and saying things like why they are flagged even in the first place then there is seriously something wrong with the flagging system here. People likes pictures just because they are created for public use, not because they want denizens of highly elite flagger group that critize their works and remove them from the site even. I highly agree that pictures should get deleted if they are really eye-disturbing especially in anatomical sense. However when I looked post #2626272 I can't see anything wrong the picture has good lining, coloring and composition in spite of anatomy mistakes and that's what makes this kind of picture eye-candy and its loved by common people on the site and that score is proof for this fact yet you guys are still going on same mistake, repeating that it should be deleted because of anatomy mistakes that is not even eye-disturbing. This is actually what bothers me. Flag system have so much holes in it that if you are good at with your words then you can make approves delete most of images which resemles to this post in this site.
Really, now?
If anything, isn't letting each moderator have their vote on the matter a little more, you know... democratic (well, a representative democracy, at least) than making it so that the first person who makes their own arbitrary declaration always gets their way? Isn't that a little closer to a dictatorship?
Anyway, Danbooru has a moderation system for a reason. I was promoted to have approver powers for the specific purpose of using my judgement to sort through what is and is not good enough art on Danbooru. If you have a problem with that judgement being exercised at all, you really have a problem with Danbooru, not me... but that's really not what you're going after, is it? You're mad about ONE image being flagged, but making sweeping claims about how there is an unstoppable horde of flagging tyranny pouring through the borders.
And again, virtually NOTHING that isn't a sample actually gets deleted around here, so these paranoid conspiracy theories about the ease of flagging are just baseless. (You're complaining about the "dictatorship" that "delete most of the images on this site" about a flag that was already overturned a day before you posted. That's some iron-fisted tyranny crushing into you if you didn't even realize it happened until it was already gone.)
Thanks for thinking my writing skills are so persuasive as to move otherwise unmovable opinions, but again, the problem I just highlighted was how one approver said he would instantly re-approve any flag that didn't mention quality, and another janitor saying that he instantly re-approved it because the flag DID mention quality. That takes some pretty fantastical writing skills to write a flag so persuasive that they overcome the need to square a circle.
Flandre5carlet said:
I could be wrong but I think there's many people who come to Danbooru because it's an image repository, and they're either unaware or don't care about the quality standards that differ from others like Gelbooru or Sankaku. Those standards are also the very reason some people don't like this site, either - because they're very disregarding about quality if it appeals to their particular interest of what they're looking for.
Similarly, from what I've seen, ecchi/suggestive pictures generally gather a lot of likes and favourites rather independently from quality. The reasons can be many; maybe people have a bigger interest in suggestive pictures, maybe people are less regarding about anatomy when the theme appeals to them, maybe people are just less regarding in general...
Honestly, the picture has sweet colouring but the back/hips anatomy flat out kills it for me.
Well, according to that poll that Albert had conducted, most users appreciate the quality standards, moderation, and the tagging system.
A bulk of users are say they are primarily looking at the more pornographic images, which seems a bit odd, because looking at the data says "Safe" images are uploaded more frequently than "Questionable" or "Extreme" by an order of magnitude.
That data lends circumstantial evidence about what I tend to suspect about Danbooru's userbase, which is that most users (as a percentage of people who ever visit the site) are very infrequent visitors who just look at the best porn of the fetishes they desire we have on tap, then log off for weeks or months at a time, while there is a core few users who are regulars (that means us, the people who give enough of a shit to read the forums) who are doing the bulk of the uploading, are the approvers and/or the translators, and are more likely to view things that are uploaded daily or weekly, and like the soft-translated webcomics and doujins, or at least the non-porn art that tends to be in pools. Just looking at what's being uploaded, users with automatically approved uploads are a tiny fraction of users, but make up over half of uploads on any given day. Even among the rest, I see an awful lot of the "regulars" making uploads in the mod queue.
I know I, myself, lurked Danbooru without uploading anything, just occasionally looking at Touhou art for the first few years I was technically a member, but then I started reading the daily webcomics, and became a daily reader for a couple years, and then I started uploading a couple years after that, and then I was promoted to approver. And I really only look at the same ol' "picture of a girl with big boogs" stuff only when I'm approving, nowadays...
So I have to ask, really, what metric of "who uses Danbooru most" should we be using? Should ten users who only show up for fifteen minutes about once every other month really outweigh the person who uses Danbooru an hour or two every day, and is taking the time to upload the content that actually attracts those others? Who is it that Danbooru's systems should really be built to encourage, the occasional browser, or the people that actually put the bait in the traps, as it were?
Not that it really needs to come to a head-to-head contest, this has obviously been a functional symbiotic relationship for over a decade for Danbooru to have worked as it does this long, but this notion of protecting a "silent majority" who conveniently appears to make one side of an argument or the other seem like it has more support as needed is a little dubious.
Besides that, just consider other sites like Wikipedia for a moment... most regular users don't care about what goes into making most of the Wikipedia pages or care about how a source was cited or any of that other stuff, but the whole site relies upon a notion that the information is at least reasonably likely to be accurate and fairly without bias. In other words, most people don't think about all the work being done on the page behind the scene unless there's a problem. And most people don't really care or think about the moderation process on Danbooru... but they do start thinking about it if there starts to be a lot of material they object to for one reason or the other. I remember a serious backlash against guro that occurred as fallout from one artist drawing Alice Margatroid being sliced by a razor which wound up with a pretty large user-pushed flagging purge. Again, it's part of the governing by inertia that Danbooru rests upon that things are small pushes and nudges up until it makes enough people angry that it's suddenly a stampede, and there needs to be a better way of releasing the stress before it hits critical levels.
