Posted under General
Implicating hair_down to alternate_hairstyle.
Implicating hair_up to alternate_hairstyle.
Reason: These seem to be considered subsets, seeing as I found several pictures of Beatrice with her hair down I didn't know existed by looking through alternate hairstyle.
Also I just removed 40 pictures of Riza Hawkeye from the hair up tag, so maybe it will make it clearer that they're intended to be used when not the character's typical hairstyle.
Updated
7HS said:
Implicating hair_down to alternate_hairstyle.
Implicating hair_up to alternate_hairstyle.Reason: These seem to be considered subsets, seeing as I found several pictures of Beatrice with her hair down I didn't know existed by looking through alternate hairstyle.
Also I just removed 40 pictures of Riza Hawkeye from the hair up tag, so maybe it will make it clearer that they're intended to be used when not the character's typical hairstyle.
What? Stop making up policies. If she wears her hair up, then she deserves the tag. Revert those edits and stop suggesting stupid implications. Hair down is a statement of fact, there's absolutely nothing that makes it any more true if the character doesn't normally wear their hair down. The same goes for not tagging barefoot when the character is nude, or not tagging multi_tail on yakumo_ran and any other similar stupidity. What the fuck? One true statement doesn't make other true statements any less true.
葉月 said:
What? Stop making up policies. If she wears her hair up, then she deserves the tag. Revert those edits and stop suggesting stupid implications.
Wiki for hair up says: "A character who would normally have a hairdo that was down and straight, layering over their shoulders/back- now has an up hairdo. A character who’s original design sported long or down hairdo -now has it cut short or up in hair-ties." Wiki for hair down says roughly the opposite.
Checking the history it looks like this was decided by unicogirl. If she was mistaken as to the purpose of the tags I apologize for escalating things. However, I think the tags would be more useful when used to indicate a contrast with the character's usual hairstyle rather then a fact, otherwise hair down seems pretty synonymous with long hair.
7HS said:
Checking the history it looks like this was decided by unicogirl. If she was mistaken as to the purpose of the tags I apologize for escalating things.
Right, I didn't check that part, sorry about that. However, it's still a stupid policy made up unilaterally and without any consulting with the community.
However, I think the tags would be more useful when used to indicate a contrast with the character's usual hairstyle rather then a fact, otherwise hair down seems pretty synonymous with long hair.
I don't. It's a factual tag, something that's either there or not. Basing it on some kind of usual state for the given character is stupid and counter-productive (that holds for any and all instances of tagging X conditionally on Y).
If I want to search for instances of hair being down, I don't care if it's usual for the character or not. If I want to search for pics featuring a character that usually wears their hair tied, I will search for "character_name hair_down". And if I wanted all instances of hair down being unusual (no idea why you'd want that, but OK), I can simply say "hair_down alternate_hairstyle". Restricting tags based on arbitrary other tags or conditions is dumb and buys you nothing.
I'm strongly on 7HS' side regarding the usefulness of contrast tags. They're not "dumb" whatsoever, and if you think so you might as well petition to have adult and young removed. (But don't bother, they're not going anywhere.)
Should hair_up and hair_down be two of these? 7HS makes a good argument, actually, that other tags (bun, ponytail, twintails, etc) would theoretically be used instead for normal styles. hair_up and hair_down aren't the only way to describe those styles, so it's hardly a stupid idea to save them, or if not them then some other tag, for indicating style contrast. And that's the only time I would ever use them, myself.
The question is, is it "wrong" to use them on normal hairstyle or original character images? Well, I'd prefer for them to be contrast tags, but since we already have the well established alternate_hairstyle tag, it doesn't seem critical to have hair_up and hair_down restricted to indicating contrast. Especially because people will probably use them for normal styles anyway, diluting the usefulness of intending them for contrast.
So just stick to alternate_hairstyle. It's usually granular enough, can be combined with any hair style tag you want if you really need to get more specific, and you don't have to worry about policing a meaning of hair_up/down that some people won't agree with.
One matter I did consider bringing up at the same time is whether a distinction should be made between functional hairclips (i.e. ones that actually hold the hair up or exhibit some significant effect on its shape,) and decorative ones like kagamine rin's.
This is the reason that hair up wouldn't be redundant, even if treated as a 'fact' tag rather then a 'contrast' tag - there's no other tag, AFAIK, that can be used to describe hairstyles like that of Riza Hawkeye or sakurai kanade. When I consider that, I'm inclined to change my opinion on it as being more useful as a contrast tag... but I'd rather see the hairclip tag split, I think.
Perhaps barrette would make a good tag for the functional variety?
