randomness said: When its said this way, I start to dislike Marisa a little. It makes her sound like a rampant plagiarist who only leeches off of others work.
Keep in mind this is a dream. It's very likely that Marisa herself is the one who feels this way. In this case, being expressed by dream-Patchouli. Note that I'm not saying dreams are actually like this, But I believe that's the intent the author is trying to convey; That these dreams are essentially a manifestation of Marisa's own self-doubts.
randomness said: When its said this way, I start to dislike Marisa a little. It makes her sound like a rampant plagiarist who only leeches off of others work.
I believe she doesn't directly copy others' spells: she makes her spells based on others' that she likes. The boundary between plagiarism and reference is quite vague, and while it's true that Marisa does have spells that resemble others', it has never been stated (not even in the Grimoire of Marisa) that she copied them. (Recall that she's the overly honest type regarding certain matters, especially after Shikieiki gave her a lecture.)
So yeah, it all depends on where you set the boundaries and whether you believe Marisa crosses them.
Lick_King said: I believe she doesn't directly copy others' spells: she makes her spells based on others' that she likes. The boundary between plagiarism and reference is quite vague, and while it's true that Marisa does have spells that resemble others', it has never been stated (not even in the Grimoire of Marisa) that she copied them. (Recall that she's the overly honest type regarding certain matters, especially after Shikieiki gave her a lecture.)
So yeah, it all depends on where you set the boundaries and whether you believe Marisa crosses them.
I disagree with you, part of the reason I dislike marisa is that her signature spell Master Spark is a copy of yuka's close to final attack in lotus land story.
silver-alex said: I disagree with you, part of the reason I dislike marisa is that her signature spell Master Spark is a copy of yuka's close to final attack in lotus land story.
Oh my, disagreement without understanding the argument.
silver-alex said: I disagree with you, part of the reason I dislike marisa is that her signature spell Master Spark is a copy of yuka's close to final attack in lotus land story.
That has more to do with Zun reusing spells than Marisa's character.
Lick_King said: I believe she doesn't directly copy others' spells: she makes her spells based on others' that she likes. The boundary between plagiarism and reference is quite vague, and while it's true that Marisa does have spells that resemble others', it has never been stated (not even in the Grimoire of Marisa) that she copied them. (Recall that she's the overly honest type regarding certain matters, especially after Shikieiki gave her a lecture.)
So yeah, it all depends on where you set the boundaries and whether you believe Marisa crosses them.
Kinda like those "custom authour sprites" but more original
The "Non-Directional" part doesn't refer to the laser being unfocused, but that the multiple lasers are not aimed in any particular direction, unlike Marisa's other laser attacks.
Lick_King said: Oh my, disagreement without understanding the argument.
Well, look at it from both sides. You seem to assert that Marisa's spells are original works influenced by other spells. I'd draw an analogy between the films like Yojimbo and Fistfull of Dollars. Similar plot, admitted inspiration, different names, actors, genres, settings, etc. On the other hand, the argument for homage/inspiration and against plagiarism is undermined by the fact the spells share the same name and look exactly alike. What is Marisa changing/contributing to differentiate, make these her own work?
It's only plagarism if Marisa claims to have invented the spells herself. To my knowledge, she has never done so.
I think, at most, she might have claimed ownership of the spells in the sense of having mastered them.
Knowledge and skills... anyone who displays these things openly cannot object when others learn from them. Only someone who hides knowledge in secret can object, because knowledge can only be stolen when it is kept hidden.
Marisa can't be called a thief. A copy-cat, perhaps, but being ABLE to copy-cat people is a talent in and of itself. Especially when the copy-cat cleverly copies only what works for herself, and modifies the skills to suit her own self.
Further, Marisa has invented her own spells. Moonlight Ray - Shoot the Moon, I do believe, as well as her other star-dust spells.
As I said, she also takes her copied spells in directions that the creators never did. She uses the Master Spark to increase her speed with the Comet spells, and developed the Easy Harvest/Sure Fire "Perversion" variant. She advanced the Non-Directional Laser to such a point that it no longer resembled the original form (at least at higher difficulties).
Red_Inugami said: It's only plagarism if Marisa claims to have invented the spells herself. To my knowledge, she has never done so.
I think, at most, she might have claimed ownership of the spells in the sense of having mastered them.
Knowledge and skills... anyone who displays these things openly cannot object when others learn from them. Only someone who hides knowledge in secret can object, because knowledge can only be stolen when it is kept hidden.
Marisa can't be called a thief. A copy-cat, perhaps, but being ABLE to copy-cat people is a talent in and of itself. Especially when the copy-cat cleverly copies only what works for herself, and modifies the skills to suit her own self.
Further, Marisa has invented her own spells. Moonlight Ray - Shoot the Moon, I do believe, as well as her other star-dust spells.
As I said, she also takes her copied spells in directions that the creators never did. She uses the Master Spark to increase her speed with the Comet spells, and developed the Easy Harvest/Sure Fire "Perversion" variant. She advanced the Non-Directional Laser to such a point that it no longer resembled the original form (at least at higher difficulties).
Her improving them doesn't change the fact she's a thief. If you design a new car and I take your plans without your permission, make my own changes, then make my own new car, it still doesn't change the fact that I stole your plans first. Even admitting that I took your plans doesn't change the fact I stole them, it just makes me honest and a thief instead of a liar and a thief.
Isn't that basically happens in the aftermarket? There all all kinds of ways to jack up your ride to make it faste, handle better etc. And that certainly isn't stealing, many of those parts are the original creations of of other designers. So cars may not be the best anology here.
But isn't something like copying techniques and/or abilities different than just outright being a rip-off or a replica? Since a technique is something to be learned after all and not a physical object like a car or an idea as in plagarism but rather than that it's learning. Of course if you claim it your own then that is indeed stealing the closest example I can currently think off is the kinniku buster and the ashura buster from kinnikuman in which the kinniku buster is a technique made by kinnikuman and the ashura buster is a modified version of the kinniku buster which deals more damage and is harder (if not impossible) to escape i wouldn't consider that as stealing per se.
Her improving them doesn't change the fact she's a thief. If you design a new car and I take your plans without your permission, make my own changes, then make my own new car, it still doesn't change the fact that I stole your plans first. Even admitting that I took your plans doesn't change the fact I stole them, it just makes me honest and a thief instead of a liar and a thief.
Then by your logic, everyone in car industry is a thief except Ford because he invented the car... and even so he was probably ripping off from the guy who invented the chariot, etc, etc.
It's confirmed she copied the Non-directional laser from Patchy, though, she didn't just copy it, she improved it, pretty much like magicians like Patchy and Alice did. The only difference here is that Marisa uses what she sees instead of what she researched in books. Or do you honestly think Patchy invented magic itself? Marisa never claimed she invented Non-directional laser or Master Spark (though not even ZUN as said she copied this one). She observed and improved upon what she saw. In case you guys haven't noticed, that's basically how things evolve in real life.
Also (from the wiki, you should check the article itself for references): "It's unlikely her implied tendency to copy other's moves is abnormal, as magicians such as Marisa build upon the work of others. Marisa claims in The Grimoire of Marisa that it's "magicians who build on observation", while Patchouli Knowledge uses the pride of magicians to add their own original touch to another's work while preserving and respecting the original.[18] Magicians seek the truth according to Patchouli.[19] They act like researchers in this sense, building upon the work of others."
Can we drop the pointless argument now? Find better reasons to hate on Marisa at the very least, out of respect for those who can name a plethora of reasons why she is awesome.
...An unfunny joke!It's really ...My spell was stolen after I put all that hard work into creating it.And above all, it's cast incorrectly, even when its power is reduced to shit.Non-Directional Laser!!