I would just like to add another one, injecting disinfectant (or somehow shining a UV light inside your body?) is not a good way to deal with the coronavirus. Just because something can kill cells, doesn't mean going all-in will be a good idea.
I still can't believe he said that. Had missed the press conference and was watching the commentary on what was said immediately afterwards, and I had to seriously go to a recording of the press conference cause I just couldn't believe that had been said that... and yet there it was.
It really does seem to reinforce what I had heard that he usually skips out on task force meetings and only is actually aware of what is going to be in a press conference just before they hold it, where he has the chance to mark up with a sharpie his lines.
I still can't believe he said that. Had missed the press conference and was watching the commentary on what was said immediately afterwards, and I had to seriously go to a recording of the press conference cause I just couldn't believe that had been said that... and yet there it was.
It really does seem to reinforce what I had heard that he usually skips out on task force meetings and only is actually aware of what is going to be in a press conference just before they hold it, where he has the chance to mark up with a sharpie his lines.
The scary part is now there’s going to be a large, large number of people who will take it to heart and a even larger amount going around spreading it as fact to other people who won’t know, while not accepting any other truth because they either take his word as gospel, or call anything else that contradict it a lie.
People are going to get seriously injured or die, not just now but in the futures to come.
The scary part is now there’s going to be a large, large number of people who will take it to heart and a even larger amount going around spreading it as fact to other people who won’t know, while not accepting any other truth because they either take his word as gospel, or call anything else that contradict it a lie.
People are going to get seriously injured or die, not just now but in the futures to come.
Just horribly depressing that we have to have doctors and the companies that make these cleaners have to reiterate what any 5 year old will know, that you shouldn’t try and ingest or inject these chemicals into our bodies.
Keo said: The scary part is now there’s going to be a large, large number of people who will take it to heart and a even larger amount going around spreading it as fact to other people who won’t know, while not accepting any other truth because they either take his word as gospel, or call anything else that contradict it a lie.
I can give you the perspective of at least two Trump supporters who reacted to that - the press gives him smack about even the serious things, so throw out some low hanging fruit that is unrelated so they waste their time.
On the other hand, considering this is a government that spends money on shrimp running speed and a physical border wall, I wouldn't be surprised if someone did run through a gamut of suggestions, even the outlandish, just because it was written up.
I still can't believe he said that. Had missed the press conference and was watching the commentary on what was said immediately afterwards, and I had to seriously go to a recording of the press conference cause I just couldn't believe that had been said that... and yet there it was.
It really does seem to reinforce what I had heard that he usually skips out on task force meetings and only is actually aware of what is going to be in a press conference just before they hold it, where he has the chance to mark up with a sharpie his lines.
I think the best part is how he tried to run damage control by saying he was being sarcastic with reporters, despite him clearly addressing the doctor. This made me realize that this is Trump when he's out in public, I can't imagine the kooky shit being said/done behind closed doors.
That's because he didn't. The transcripts are clear that PotUS Trump never suggested actually injecting/ingesting disinfectant.
The transcript of the relevant parts (emphasis added):
THE PRESIDENT: So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that too. It sounds interesting.
ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: We’ll get to the right folks who could.
THE PRESIDENT: Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.
As for the UV light, such therapy is called "ultraviolet blood irradiation", it's a well known but very old method that was replaced with antibiotics, although recent studies (before this pandemic) revealed that it had capabilities outside of what antibiotics do better. Getting it inside the body is as simple as fiber optics. However, he quite clearly deferred to the need for testing.
As for the disinfectant, he simply asked a question about it (note the use of 'is') and quite clearly indicated it was something that would have to be left to doctors. Furthermore, FDA Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn actually followed up and defended this question.
Dr. Stephen Hahn said:
So I think the data that were presented at the press conference today were really important in terms of what kills the virus, and I believe the president was asking a question that many Americans are asking, which is, 'okay, this is what kills the virus, it's a physical agent, in this case UV light. How could that be applied to kill the virus, for example, in a human being?' We have plenty of examples in medicine where light therapy has been used for treatment of certain diseases, so it's a natural question that I as a doctor would have expected to hear from someone as a natural extension of the data that were presented.
PotUS Trump himself followed up on the disinfectant comment to Jon Karl, reporter for ABC:
PotUS Trump:
It wouldn’t be through injections, you’re talking about almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object.
This is quite clearly NOT 'a go and do this thing which I have said numerous times needs testing'. He's also correct here, disinfectants do have a big effect on the Corona Virus when on stationary objects - ergo non-living things. Of course, this is going to get downvoted to hell but (his snippy war with the press aside) hate the guy or loathe the guy, it's disingenuous to claim he advised ingesting bleach, injecting lysol, or anything of the sort.
He defended the question because he doesn't want to be sidedlined like any other official who questions Trump's crazy shit. For what its worth, I gave your comment an upvote since it is well researched.
Regardless, Trump took the same tone with the anti-malarial medication and other drugs while saying to 'test' them while he internally directed his admin to secure and spread it.
She defended the question because she doesn't want to be sidedlined like any other official who questions Trump's crazy shit. For what its worth, I gave your comment an upvote since it is well researched.
Regardless, Trump took the same tone with the anti-malarial medication and other drugs while saying to 'test' them while he internally directed his admin to secure and spread it.
Minor note: Stephen Hahn is a guy.
Main point: While, yes, but at the end of the day directing the use of an Anti-Malarial Medication (which pre-existing preliminary studies were suggesting could have effect) is not the same as telling someone to drink bleach or inject Lysol into your veins. It's roughly analogous to comparing gatorading/poweraiding a guy to drowning him in the Atlantic. One is questionable but could be done in good nature, the other is murder.
All these people look the same to me and I'm too drunk to tell the difference anymore.
I'm still of the mindset that the president, of all people, shouldn't be shooting from the hip when it comes to drugs that haven't undergone testing, then pushing hard for these drugs when hey haven't been tested using his authority as president to do so.
That's because he didn't. The transcripts are clear that PotUS Trump never suggested actually injecting/ingesting disinfectant.
No, he just suggested that they test what happens by putting into the human body bleach and isopropyl alcohol. Things that are known not to do good things inside the body. He's literally asking them if they're going to test that, things that utterly don't even need to be tested and that we already teach children to stay away from and not to put into their body.
I'm still of the mindset that the president, of all people, shouldn't be shooting from the hip when it comes to drugs that haven't undergone testing, then pushing hard for these drugs when hey haven't been tested using his authority as president to do so.
A completely reasonable position, and I agree with you - I don't think any politician should try be trying to force their opinion on medicine, science, or whathaveyou as official policy, yet they do it all the time much to my annoyance. That being said, it's still not the same as telling people to drink/inject bleach. That's all my point is, really.
No, he just suggested that they test what happens by putting into the human body bleach and isopropyl alcohol. Things that are known not to do good things inside the body.
I personally disagree with that assessment (despite understanding how you got there). But I am often involved with care of the elderly, so I may have just learned to see things differently. To understand what PotUS Trump did, you have to understand a bit about gentriatrics; or, more specifically, gentrian behavior. He's 73 years old; he may be a 'highly functional' 73, but he's still 73 and acts his age often enough. He simply made what's referred to as a 'similarity reference', as older people tend to do when they cannot learn a new word or feel like there should have been a name given (when there wasn't) and don't want to say they didn't hear something, so they'll instead latch onto a similar word and use it as a reference point.
In this case, William Bryan (Acting Under Secretary for Science and Technology at the DHS) had just said this:
William Bryan said:
For example, increasing the temperature and humidity of potentially contaminated indoor spaces appears to reduce the stability of the virus, and extra care may be warranted for dry environments that do not have exposure to solar light. We’re also testing disinfectants readily available. We’ve tested bleach, we’ve tested isopropyl alcohol on the virus specifically in saliva or in respiratory fluids and I can tell you that bleach will kill the virus in five minutes. Isopropyl alcohol will kill the virus in 30 seconds and that’s with no manipulation, no rubbing. Just bring it on and leaving it go. You rub it and it goes away even faster. We’re also looking at other disinfectants, specifically looking at the COVID-19 virus in saliva. This is not the end of our work.
Both references to Bleach and Isopropyl Alcohol are correct, external uses. However, the important part is
William Bryan said:
We’re also looking at other disinfectants, specifically looking at the COVID-19 virus in saliva. This is not the end of our work.
Pay attention to how he segued into this description and what this description lacks. It was a direct transition and, more importantly, he didn't give this new concept a clear and concrete name. Incidentally, if you work with or live around the Elderly, never do this. ALWAYS give every new entity and concept you bring up a clear and defined name, and find ways to repeat its name multiple times in the reference, otherwise there's a good chance the elderly will immediately associate it with a previous, known, but similar concept - especially if you had just been speaking of such a thing. Names are important when communicating with the elderly, vitally important. Even if you are referring to an older concept, bring up the name or they won't know what you're talking about or you're just going to confuse them. Which is exactly what you see happening here.
Bryan referred to this 'new' disinfectant, but didn't give it a name and didn't give enough information to refer to it by description (according to the elderly mind, because the only 'name' given was 'COVID-19', which was 'obviously not a disinfectant'). PotUS Trump later wanted to refer to this, but (being elderly) he couldn't quite recall its name - which is obvious, because Bryan didn't give it one, but names tend to be assumed as given by the elderly. However, he could recall Bleach and Isopropyl Alcohol being mentioned (and both of which are names), both of those are disinfectants, the new thing was a disinfectant, therefore the new thing must be related to Bleach and Isopropyl Alcohol given there was no hard segue between them (edit: and made worse by the fact Bryan himself connected this new disinfectant with those two via the use of 'other' in the segue). Therefore this nameless disinfectant became 'like Bleach' and 'like Isopropyl Alcohol' in PotUS Trump's (and many elderly viewers') minds.
The problem of having a generation gap between politicians and the demographic base, in either direction.
The simple fact still stands, if he was doing his damn job and attending the regular COVID-19 task force meetings he’d have been aware of this stuff in advance instead of literally learning this stuff in the same damn press conference where the experts are supposed to be informing the American people. He wouldn’t have asked a question that gives the impression that he is even hinting that these things could cure COVID-19 in the human body.
The simple fact still stands, if he was doing his damn job and attending the regular COVID-19 task force meetings he’d have been aware of this stuff in advance instead of literally learning this stuff in the same damn press conference where the experts are supposed to be informing the American people. He wouldn’t have asked a question that gives the impression that he is even hinting that these things could cure COVID-19 in the human body.
The simple fact still stands that rumors are rumors and many other sources claim the rumors are bunk, including members of the task force who aren't exactly on good terms with PotUS Trump, saying his attendance is above average for this type of thing. Even Dr. Fauci, who contradicts PotUS Trump on nearly everything, has said that PotUS Trump is 'there more often than the other members'. Furthermore, if you're believing rumors, rumors are suggesting that even taskforce members and Dr. Hahn in particular were blindsided by Bryan's comments and had no idea what he was talking about, indicating that this hadn't been discussed at the higher levels.
I suggest not believing everything you read from sources which are dedicated to taking down a sitting politician. I said the same thing during the Fmr.PotUS Obama's years (about what Republicans were saying) and I'm saying the same thing now about what is being said about PotUS Trump. Very, very often both sides are lying.
The simple fact still stands that rumors are rumors and many other sources claim the rumors are bunk, including members of the task force who aren't exactly on good terms with PotUS Trump, saying his attendance is above average for this type of thing. Even Dr. Fauci, who contradicts PotUS Trump on nearly everything, has said that PotUS Trump is 'there more often than the other members'. Furthermore, if you're believing rumors, rumors are suggesting that even taskforce members and Dr. Hahn in particular were blindsided by Bryan's comments and had no idea what he was talking about, indicating that this hadn't been discussed at the higher levels.
I suggest not believing everything you read from sources which are dedicated to taking down a sitting politician. I said the same thing during the Fmr.PotUS Obama's years (about what Republicans were saying) and I'm saying the same thing now about what is being said about PotUS Trump. Very, very often both sides are lying.
Watching the absolute horror on that doctors face told me all i needed to know about this situation and it told me that the president has no clothes. No amount of "both sides" can change that involuntary look
Watching the absolute horror on that doctors face told me all i needed to know about this situation and it told me that the president has no clothes. No amount of "both sides" can change that involuntary look
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said/you quoted, and no amount of deflection can change that. Whether the doctor was reacting to what they heard the President say, something they misheard/misunderstood and thought the President said, or something entirely different; expression reading and other forms of 'human lie detection' are not admissible evidence in courts for very, very many good reasons and it shouldn't be in an 'objective' court of public opinion either, if such could even exist. The "both sides", as you referred to it, was in direct reference to the swirling rumors about politicians in general.
The issue that was being discussed was PotUS Trump supposedly suggesting injection/ingestion of Bleach or Isopropyl Alcohol, which the fact is clear he did not. Anyone who misheard or misunderstood him (which is easy given his speaking style) would be right to be shocked or utterly horrified, but that's not what he actually said nor (intentionally) implied anywhere in the ordeal and claiming he did is in obvious error in light of the transcripts.
Edit: Downvoted to hell in 2 minutes. That's how much of a kneejerk reaction anyone who defends PotUS Trump even on simple matters of easily verified statements can expect, I suppose. If he's wrong, he's wrong. But the simple fact is, he didn't say what people are saying he said.
Edit 2: blindVigil is correct, calling it 'downvoted to hell' was more hyperbolic than I usually like to allow in my commentary, my apologies.
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said/you quoted, and no amount of deflection can change that. Whether the doctor was reacting to what they heard the President say, something they misheard/misunderstood and thought the President said, or something entirely different; expression reading and other forms of 'human lie detection' are not admissible evidence in courts for very, very many good reasons and it shouldn't be in an 'objective' court of public opinion either, if such could even exist. The "both sides", as you referred to it, was in direct reference to the swirling rumors about politicians in general.
The issue that was being discussed was PotUS Trump supposedly suggesting injection/ingestion of Bleach or Isopropyl Alcohol, which the fact is clear he did not. Anyone who misheard or misunderstood him (which is easy given his speaking style) would be right to be shocked or utterly horrified, but that's not what he actually said nor (intentionally) implied anywhere in the ordeal and claiming he did is in obvious error in light of the transcripts.
Edit: Downvoted to hell in 2 minutes. That's how much of a kneejerk reaction anyone who defends PotUS Trump even on simple matters of easily verified statements can expect, I suppose. If he's wrong, he's wrong. But the simple fact is, he didn't say what people are saying he said.
You can't say he didn't say it when he admitted it and said it was just sarcasm.
Edit: Downvoted to hell in 2 minutes. That's how much of a kneejerk reaction anyone who defends PotUS Trump even on simple matters of easily verified statements can expect, I suppose. If he's wrong, he's wrong. But the simple fact is, he didn't say what people are saying he said.
I dunno what your threshold is set to, but your comments aren't hidden from me with a -10 threshold, so I wouldn't call what might only be 1-3 downvotes "downvoted to hell"
You can't say he didn't say it when he admitted it and said it was just sarcasm.
It was not sarcasm. He went on a tangent about his pondering of whether or not his "remedies" would work. It would be one thing if he made a passing comment or was even chuckling during the rant. He was genuinely curious and he only said it was "sarcasm" after he got ravaged for how stupid and dangerous his "suggestions" sounded.
But that's always the excuse I hear. Whenever he says something really stupid, so stupid that it can't be defended, he says he was only speaking "sarcastically" but then his supporters want me to believe he's the kind of guy that always speaks his mind and is a straight shooter. You can't be a straight shooter if every other comment you have is a "joke" that shouldn't be taken seriously.