two sister alien invasion zombie horde sharktopus who were just regular sister running on a sea from tornado and all sort of thing the movie hold on there is more ...
She's a HOLLYWOOD writer. This reminds me of Ghost in the Shell Live Action.
Not really, but go ahead and keep up that delusion that Hollywood is any different from any form of media.
Though the people that rage about GITS particularly amuse me given that the original anime they all fap over was a hack job that completely changed the tone of the original work and chopped out large elements of it to produce something that is pretentious as fuck while also being devoid of things like character, an interesting plot, coherence, etc. Meanwhile every new visual interpretation since has further changed, added, or discarded shit as it pleased around the vague central themes, but when the live action movie does the same thing it's because Hollywood is the devil.
Not really, but go ahead and keep up that delusion that Hollywood is any different any form of media.
Though the people that rage about GITS particularly amuse me given that the original anime they all fap over was a hack job that completely changed the tone of the original work and chopped out large elements of it to produce something that is pretentious as fuck while also being devoid of things like character, an interesting plot, coherence, etc. Meanwhile every new visual interpretation since has further changed, added, or discarded shit as it pleased around the vague central themes, but when the live action movie does the same thing it's because Hollywood is the devil.
Well, then, if people can do different things with the same license, but people only hate the Hollywood version's differences, maybe the blame lies with what those Hollywood differences were, and not "it was different", alone.
It helps that the Hollywood version was a bomb and nobody liked it on its own merits, much less as a part of a series it didn't really feel like it was a part of. I mean, Pandora in the Crimson Shell is technically completely within the continuity of the GITS universe that also happens to be a yuri gag anime that is almost totally divorced from all but a few of the themes of the originals, but people were just fine with it because people liked what changes they made and liked watching a show that was basically "cute girls do cute things while also fighting terrorists and maybe a little magic girl show flavor" with or without the need to have anything to do with the GITS brand. Meanwhile, live-action GITS was just a GITS brand name plastered over the same CGI crap pseudo-superhero movie Hollywood has been churning out since Spiderman made enough money that every Hollywood studio tried to want to turn every comic book ever into the exact same movie. (Coming soon: Archie vs. Jughead: Dawn of Justice, where Archie DIES fighting Veronica!)
"When business is hot, you can do no wrong. When business is cold, you can do no right."
Well, then, if people can do different things with the same license, but people only hate the Hollywood version's differences, maybe the blame lies with what those Hollywood differences were, and not "it was different", alone.
The problem is many people had little cristism beyond "They changed stuff/it's not the anime" or acted like that was a criticism to start with.
The movie had other issues, but changes to the source material weren't the big ones and given the character of the franchise which by that point had five different versions with often radically different characterization and relationships it was a stupid one as well. The fact it was most often being compared to another version that was probably about the worst of the bunch mentioned, but is slavishly held up by fans via a potent mix of nostalgia and group think as some masterpiece was just icing on the cake.
It helps that the Hollywood version was a bomb and nobody liked it on its own merits, much less as a part of a series it didn't really feel like it was a part of.
It felt like it was part of the series, people that say otherwise are just trying to be hipsters and refusing to acknowledge that the GITS franchise is very diverse ranging from outright comedy to banal melodrama with only cyberpunk themes really linking them.
I mean, Pandora in the Crimson Shell is technically completely within the continuity of the GITS universe that also happens to be a yuri gag anime that is almost totally divorced from all but a few of the themes of the originals, but people were just fine with it because--
Because it's from Japan and the characters have big eyes so it doesn't matter what it's actual content is. Is the actual truth.
Although it's not actually within the GITS continuity, because there is no GITS continuity as mentioned there are half a dozen and then this sort of vaugely related spin off. Though frankly to me using the GITS concepts for ANOTHER cancerous "Cute girls" series is WAY worse then what the live action moive did. At least it was TRYING to tell a serious story.
I can respect failed effort more then zero effort at all.
Meanwhile, live-action GITS was just a GITS brand name plastered over the same CGI crap pseudo-superhero movie
Yeah sure, careful buddy your bias is leaking. GITS is an action story where the characters basically have superpowers, you know that right? Of course there will be some overlap, GITS's bigger problems though where with characterization and plot not theme or setting really.
Hollywood has been churning out since Spiderman made enough money that every Hollywood studio tried to want to turn every comic book ever into the exact same movie.
As opposed to glorious Nippion animation industry that since K-on! made enough money every animation studio has tried to want to turn every light novel/4koma gag strip ever into the exact same anime.
(Coming soon: Archie vs. Jughead: Dawn of Justice, where Archie DIES fighting Veronica!)
Archie has had crossovers with the Punisher and had basically it's entire case killed by a predator in the actual comics, so you'll have to try harder then that.
And you know what I'd still take even THIS over "four to six cute girls sit around doing basically fucking nothing for 13 episodes the series" number 5,052.
Seriously, fucking anime has NO high ground to be trying to throw stones at other media industries for being 'derivative'.
The problem is many people had little cristism beyond "They changed stuff/it's not the anime" or acted like that was a criticism to start with.
The movie had other issues, but changes to the source material weren't the big ones and given the character of the franchise which by that point had five different versions with often radically different characterization and relationships it was a stupid one as well. The fact it was most often being compared to another version that was probably about the worst of the bunch mentioned, but is slavishly held up by fans via a potent mix of nostalgia and group think as some masterpiece was just icing on the cake.
[...]
Seriously, fucking anime has NO high ground to be trying to throw stones at other media industries for being 'derivative'.
Who, exactly, are you arguing against? Because it's not like "the anime industry" is a person who says that the live action GITS was crap.
Tk3997 said:
It felt like it was part of the series, people that say otherwise are just trying to be hipsters and refusing to acknowledge that the GITS franchise is very diverse ranging from outright comedy to banal melodrama with only cyberpunk themes really linking them.
[...]
Although it's not actually within the GITS continuity, because there is no GITS continuity as mentioned there are half a dozen and then this sort of vaugely related spin off.
You mean like I just did, when I pointed out how Pandora in the Crimson Shell is totally different from the source material, but is much more enjoyable to watch? (Right before you argue that Pandora in the Crimson Shell is "cancerous" because "they changed it" to have cute girls.) Again, who are you arguing against? It seems like you're just fighting against a straw opponent, here.
Tk3997 said:
Because it's from Japan and the characters have big eyes so it doesn't matter what it's actual content is. Is the actual truth.
[...]
Though frankly to me using the GITS concepts for ANOTHER cancerous "Cute girls" series is WAY worse then what the live action moive did. At least it was TRYING to tell a serious story.
[...]
Yeah sure, careful buddy your bias is leaking. GITS is an action story where the characters basically have superpowers, you know that right? Of course there will be some overlap, GITS's bigger problems though where with characterization and plot not theme or setting really.
So, my not liking the general trend of big-budget spectacle-over-substance Hollywood blockbusters is instantly invalidated as mere "bias", since it is, of course, not a valid opinion to not like something if you're biased by... not liking that thing? Meanwhile, YOUR not liking a whole genre of things is valid... because it's NOT bias when you do it?
Not a hypocritical argument at all!
It also completely ignores the main point of the argument I was making, which was that it's not about whether things are different or not, but whether they do anything worth watching with those changes. It takes basically no effort to find reviews online that talk about why live action GITS doesn't work either to those who don't know anything about the series and see it with fresh eyes or those who do know something of the series find it lacks the depth of the anime movie GITS? (But then, arguing against the opinions of real critics is harder to dismiss than strawmen...)
Tk3997 said:
At least it was TRYING to tell a serious story.
I can respect failed effort more then zero effort at all.
Pfft! HAHAHAHA! For someone who seems to dismiss the entire notion of comedy as worthless in one of your statements, you really make a good joke by trying to claim that the live action GITS had more effort in trying to be creative than the one that actually had the fully original story, diverged far more from the rest of the material in its universe, and actually had some sort of point to make and story to tell.
And no, I'm not stretching your words, the argument you're making is that all comedy, no matter how written, is inherently worse than the laziest "srs business" drama copy-paste job, because if it's not "srs", it must have zero effort put into it. (Or is this all just a frantic shell argument to hide from the real issue?)
Rather than make easy reductio ad absurdum arguments to try to defeat strawmen, if you apparently want to make an affirmative defense for GITS, try doing so, rather than apparently trying to make the argument that all anime is shit in an anime site to somehow justify one movie...
Tk3997 said:
As opposed to glorious Nippion animation industry that since K-on! made enough money every animation studio has tried to want to turn every light novel/4koma gag strip ever into the exact same anime.
[...]
And you know what I'd still take even THIS over "four to six cute girls sit around doing basically fucking nothing for 13 episodes the series" number 5,052.
Because criticizing Hollywood copycatism means I can't see that exact same problem in the anime industry and haven't criticized it there in the past, as well? The war on straw rages on!
Of course, if I said that I find the legions of soulless Asterisk Wars-style harem 'fighting' series clogging anime's roster to be much more a blight than the relatively few airy Pan de Pieces, that's just my "doesn't hate all comedy with a blazing passion" bias showing through, now isn't it? (P.S. That's a joke. You aren't supposed to take those seriously. But please, tell me how Punisher versus Archie was totally not a joke from the start, and is absolutely deep and meaningful and deserves its movie adaptation.)
Weeaboo friends don't count to decide if a Ghost in the Shell spin off is crap or not, of course they will "only hate the Hollywood version's differences" because it isn't Japan made. And Westaboos... well it's exactly the same but on the opposite side.
To say "Hollywood version was a bomb and nobody liked it on its own merits" is a biased statement. People can like different things, nobody is forced to be informed only to entertain for a couple of hours.
If people were aware every continuity or spin-off is just a form to milk the franchise, doesn't matter how much related to the original source is, there wouldn't be these stupid discussions. Your favorite franchise OVA, next season or spin-off is a product on its own, like it or leave it. Sometimes it was planned since the beginning, some others it's just an excuse to drag people's attention to something they know about (ask the Gundam guys, I've lost count of how many timelines and alternate universes there are). Just don't go around saying nobody like it for whatever reasons because that's totally false.
Weeaboo friends don't count to decide if a Ghost in the Shell spin off is crap or not, of course they will "only hate the Hollywood version's differences" because it isn't Japan made. And Westaboos... well it's exactly the same but on the opposite side.
To say "Hollywood version was a bomb and nobody liked it on its own merits" is a biased statement. People can like different things, nobody is forced to be informed only to entertain for a couple of hours.
If people were aware every continuity or spin-off is just a form to milk the franchise, doesn't matter how much related to the original source is, there wouldn't be these stupid discussions. Your favorite franchise OVA, next season or spin-off is a product on its own, like it or leave it. Sometimes it was planned since the beginning, some others it's just an excuse to drag people's attention to something they know about (ask the Gundam guys, I've lost count of how many timelines and alternate universes there are). Just don't go around saying nobody like it for whatever reasons because that's totally false.
Except that there isn't anybody saying all anime is better than all Hollywood, or that any time They Changed It, Now It Sucks, that's the same strawman Tk3997 jumped to. People said that specific movie was bad for specific reasons that go well beyond merely "not being the original", and once again, the acclaim and success of the completely different Pandora in the Crimson Shell directly disproves the notion that "not being like the original" in and of itself brings criticism (except from those who apparently hate anything with cute girls...), but that's not as convenient a foil as a strawman.
The live action movie being a 'bomb' is objective fact. It made back well less than half its costs. You can see the "nobody liked it" part in all the reviews. If I have to explain the hyperbole of "nobody" to you, then, well...
Some shows are just bad, and people criticizing that show in particular for its own specific failings doesn't mean they're "biased" against some greater genre or medium; that's just an easy excuse to ignore the actual criticisms against that particular work.
Oh right, just because one person on one site says so it's a fact. No wonder you believe you can talk for a whole hundred thousand community or at least more than five persons you know. I forgot your will is linked to a pattern everyone must obey or it shouldn't exist (black or white, no gray tones).
They are biased the very moment they compare a product with the supposedly original because they're different products. They may share the same cast, they may share the same director or production studio, but in the end it's a different product. They have to invent links with the prequel for marketing purposes, rewrite storyboard never though about on the first iteration and even cut a lot of everything it won't fit in two hours. If you ignore all that you're biased. And that's because tastes are subjective doesn't matter how objective (biased) the facts are. I could name a lot of commercial flops that are liked by "everyone", and if I have to explain the hyperbole of "everyone" to you, then, well...
Quite frankly, if it was unable to win back its cost, then there are several options:
1. Massive fuck up from Marketing 2. Massive PR issues (see 1) 3. The movie just wasn't appealing to people.
Here's the thing. As a Hollywood movie, the intended audience was arguably wider than just the anime community. You don't get Scarlet Johansson for something you expect to lose money on/ be a niche film. Last I checked, she's not exactly cheap to have in your film. Even with whatever they did to that effect, the movie bombed critically and commercially. This isn't just "Animated Is The Only Way": Marvel has made a sickening amount of money out of proving that wrong. If it was just 1-2, it could build a cult following, but there's no sign of that happening. So, assuming the above, 3 must also be at work. That doesn't mean absolutely no one liked it. It does, however, mean that enough people did not like it that they felt it was genuinely bad. If you want a franchise that has successfully made the jump from 2D animation to Live Action, you can basically play Pick A Marvel Property at this point. Clearly, the Live Action adaptation of Ghost In The Shell had something go wrong. Maybe the source material wasn't suited to it. Maybe they fucked up the casting (by all accounts, this was indeed an issue in part). Maybe the script was bad. But something had to have been screwed up if it failed in the box office AND has not attracted a cult following.
I totally agree on this one. I didn't mean to imply the Hollywood version isn't the worst, only that if you ask your weeaboo friends (the irritating kind that won't allow everyone to enjoy what they want and always bad mouths with "the manga is better" when no one asked) of course you'll get the perception the movie is hated by everyone. It's a biased sample including the nerdy websites each one visits.
The GitS film had a viral issue of white washing, which led to bad PR handling. Not mentioning few outside the otaku world knew about GitS. It was a forgotten franchise on the Occident until The Matrix kind of brought it back with an honorific mention, then it got forgotten again. Yet, that doesn't mean a commercial flop just like "Blade Runner" or "The Fight Club" it can't develop a cult in the future, only time will tell. I honestly find it very unlikely but you never know.
To put in my 2 cents, there's more to it than that.
There's also the matter that Hollywood adapting anime into live action movies has a long history of failure, therefore tarnishing the concept for potential viewers casual and dedicated. This trend will continue until Hollywood either puts out something the general audience engages with like Spiderman or X-Men did or they decide to only do low-budget grounded stuff like Your Name.
To speak anecdotally, the reason I didn't see GitS was because the marketing told me it was going to be like The Bourne Identity with live-action recreations of iconic action scenes spliced in.
I could go on a mini-rant, but I don't want to.
I smell some creating going on!I'm a fan of Sharktopus and Shark Exorcist, myself~Iowa-san, what are you up to?Sharknado 4 was a ton of fun too!I'm thinking up the screenplay for the Hollywood live-action version of Kancolle The Movie!Pattern 1:
A sudden attack from outer space.
Using their strong weapons and barriers, they flatten humanity!!Sure do love aliens, don't you.Sure do love zombies, don't you.Sure do love sharks, don't you.American military's strong as usual, eh?And for the finale, in the midst of the President giving a speech, the US Forces and the shipgirls perform a combined all-out attack resulting in a valorous victory!!Survival horror, eh?Pattern 2:
A sudden outbreak of the zombie virus!
Pretty much all of humanity becomes ferocious zombies and attack other humans!!Pattern 3:
The sudden appearance of the Sharkbyssal Fleet, who begin their invasion!!Okaay...Can the shipgirls who escaped infection and fled to sea get to the quarantine zone safe and sound!?