To this day I still don't quite understand why people hate her apart from how she pulled a Worf Effect on Sanageyama.
She isn't particularly overpowered that she is a Villain Sue, her screentime or the effects of her actions were not too major that she steals anyone's spotlight, anything she did is tame in comparison to many other anime villains I can name from the top of my head, and she is meant to be a creepy character, I don't see why people are treating her as the QB of 2013-14.
To this day I still don't quite understand why people hate her apart from how she pulled a Worf Effect on Sanageyama.
She isn't particularly overpowered that she is a Villain Sue, her screentime or the effects of her actions were not too major that she steals anyone's spotlight, anything she did is tame in comparison to many other anime villains I can name from the top of my head, and she is meant to be a creepy character, I don't see why people are treating her as the QB of 2013-14.
I think that, as a character, Nui is an attempt to deliberately evoke the kind of emotions in the audience that a genuine villain sue gets unintentionally. For most of the series she brings misery with her everywhere she goes while being completely untouchable and making a joke of everyone who tries to fight her seriously -- exactly like a real villain sue does (For that matter, exactly like Kyubey, who is also functionally impossible to fight and is also the ultimate source of most of the misery in PMMM).
The trick is that Nui isn't actually invincible, and when the tables turn against her for real she flips her shit and shows her nonchalant cutesiness to be a facade that's only skin deep. We knew this from her first appearance when she freaked out after getting her eye cut out by Doc Matoi -- but that doesn't make her any less aggravating to deal with the rest of the time.
I think that, as a character, Nui is an attempt to deliberately evoke the kind of emotions in the audience that a genuine villain sue gets unintentionally. For most of the series she brings misery with her everywhere she goes while being completely untouchable and making a joke of everyone who tries to fight her seriously -- exactly like a real villain sue does.
That was quite my point. In a series where all characters are always screaming, everything is so over the top, flashy and campy to the max, weird jokes and fanservice shots littered around every battle, any signs of seriousness can be instantly broken at any time, and talking clothing is the core element of the plot, a villain who treats battles as fun and games with perpetual smile should hardly be surprising, much less invoking so much hatred.
Although she may seem stronger than almost all other charas, so was Satsuki prior to her betrayal. The fact that Nui resorted to tactics such as disguise, managed to one-shot Sanageyama on their first encounter only because she is aware of Goku Seifuku's vital weakness, was severely injured by Dr. Matoi, and was at disadvantage, even if outnumbered by the Daevas, and the battle leading to this very image should be more than enough indications that as much of a misery machine that she is, she hardly qualifies to be described as "overpowered".
The difference between Satsuki and Nui is that Satsuki acknowledges the abilities of her opponents while Nui ridicules them. Nui's attitude makes it seem like she's always holding back and never taking her enemies seriously -- scenes where she "resorts to disguise" and so on comes across as her doing things just for shits and giggles rather than because she really needs to.
As for Sanageyama, we saw in the betrayal fight that Nui was perfectly capable of taking all of the Elite Four on at the same time even with upgraded uniforms. Uzu would have gotten his ass handed to him regardless of whether she targeted those vital threads or not.
The difference between Satsuki and Nui is that Satsuki acknowledges the abilities of her opponents while Nui ridicules them. Nui's attitude makes it seem like she's always holding back and never taking her enemies seriously -- scenes where she "resorts to disguise" and so on comes across as her doing things just for shits and giggles rather than because she really needs to.
I agree that she'd still be able to take out Sanageyama without breaking a sweat, but there is still a distinct difference between OHKOing someone disgracefully and fighting them for 30 seconds before manually breaking their armor with your weapon.
All in all what I mean is I don't see anything in Nui that is dynamic enough to warrant the hate she gathered. Worf Effect is bad but being a common trope, it's not a trope bad enough to ruin a character's image entirely. She may have shades of a Villain Sue, but I'd still say she scored pretty darn low on being one. And I personally would find that Mako would be the bigger offender when it comes to not taking dangers seriously, yet I don't see anyone hating on her.
I agree that she'd still be able to take out Sanageyama without breaking a sweat, but there is still a distinct difference between OHKOing someone disgracefully and fighting them for 30 seconds before manually breaking their armor with your weapon.
All in all what I mean is I don't see anything in Nui that is dynamic enough to warrant the hate she gathered. Worf Effect is bad but being a common trope, it's not a trope bad enough to ruin a character's image entirely. She may have shades of a Villain Sue, but I'd still say she scored pretty darn low on being one. And I personally would find that Mako would be the bigger offender when it comes to not taking dangers seriously, yet I don't see anyone hating on her.
I think a lot of it is just that people are happy to see the smile wiped off her face, to have that "go anywhere I want, do whatever I want" attitude shattered like cheap porcelain when she finally goes up against someone that's an actual threat to her.
She's just one of those characters people love to hate.
Owmyhead said: I think a lot of it is just that people are happy to see the smile wiped off her face, to have that "go anywhere I want, do whatever I want" attitude shattered like cheap porcelain when she finally goes up against someone that's an actual threat to her.
She's just one of those characters people love to hate.
This summarized my thoughts quite nicely. It's always nice to see a supposedly invincible villain, who has been nothing been a smug snake for the entire series, get their asses handed to them.
It is nice to see her disarmed like that, although it might be a call to arms for the villains. She'll probably keep the heroes at arm's length after this, though, as armed as they are now.
It is nice to see her disarmed like that, although it might be a call to arms for the villains. She'll probably keep the heroes at arm's length after this, though, as armed as they are now.
This summarized my thoughts quite nicely. It's always nice to see a supposedly invincible villain, who has been nothing been a smug snake for the entire series, get their asses handed to them.
Aside from the repeated phrases she uses, perhaps she and Dio has more in common after all.
I guess he means a villain that is OP, a Mary Sue character, but a villan, so a Villain Sue, that also turns out to be extremely fragile once actually damaged.
I think a lot of it is just that people are happy to see the smile wiped off her face, to have that "go anywhere I want, do whatever I want" attitude shattered like cheap porcelain when she finally goes up against someone that's an actual threat to her.
She's just one of those characters people love to hate.
Also, her overt cute personality (even though a ruse) is slightly at odds with the rest of the cast. Considering the tone of the series I think the creators intended for her to be disliked.
One thing we have to consider as to why people might not like Nui:
She basically made one of the best fights in the series (against the Elite Four) get cut short (Sanageyama didn't get his big rematch, and Ryuuko didn't get her chance to redeem that previous fight) and belittled how great those fights were (I personally think Jakuzure had the best fight in the entire series so far)
When Nui comes onto the screen, she seems to always either beat her opponent outright, not fight, or she herself gets beaten outright. It's more fun to watch her lose than to watch her fight.
We could just be over complicating this, I mean Nui as a person has very few redeeming qualities. A lot of people could instead just be hating a character they genuinely dislike because the character is a bad person.
I bring this up because this is actually how I feel, As a character Nui is actually really well done in my opinion. Unfortunately that doesn't stop me from hating her vehemently despite being honestly entertained every time she is on screen. I hate her yes, but I hate her for the kind of person she is. I do not hate her for her character role, I think she's a decent character.
We could just be over complicating this, I mean Nui as a person has very few redeeming qualities. A lot of people could instead just be hating a character they genuinely dislike because the character is a bad person.
Not really, I've seen many villains in animes who have absolutely no redeeming values too, like in cases such as Hazama from Blazblue. Hazama is so hammy evil that it's enjoyable seeing him doing whatever his evil act of the day is, even if it means seeing your beloved protagonists suffer. Apply the same logic to other villains in international medias as the Joker from Batman.
Nui is the same thing that she is evil with high comedic value in her unfeeling, creepy actions and expressions. The distinct difference she has from Hazama and Joker is that she's not the main antagonist, the mastermind behind the plot. She's a Queen chess piece that acted like one, and people hated her for it.
I guess he means a villain that is OP, a Mary Sue character, but a villan, so a Villain Sue, that also turns out to be extremely fragile once actually damaged.
...Or when an actual threat presents itself to the Paper Sue and/or his/her plans, or whenever someone ruins the Paper Sue's plans...
Although the discussion is long since over, allow me to throw out my two cents.
Everything about Nui is just aggravating. From her very first appearance, everything about her just irked me:
- Her loli-goth (I know that's not the actual name for her design but you get my meaning) image doesn't fit in with the rest of the series, and just plain looks stupid on someone her apparent age.
- Her overly cutesy behavior was annoying. I hate characters that are trying too hard to act cutesy and girly.
- Her voice was grating to my ears (easily the second most obnoxious voice in the show after Nonon aka anime-Fran-Drescher). Her random French didn't help.
- Her utter contempt for everyone and everything (whereas Satsuki at least acknowledges her foes even if she regards them as inferior) is annoying.
- Her interrupting the rematch between Ryuuko and Sanageyama (and in the most disrespectful manner possible) was annoying. When she taunted, "Become naked again, you hairless ape!", I wanted to rip her head off.
- Her whole fighting style is annoying (she either spams clones, overpowers everyone, or both, all while taunting away).
- She consistently acted like she was invincible, only to freak out like a b*tch whenever something actually hurt her. I hate characters who act like big shots, but fall apart like cheap glass when the going gets tough (in both their defenses, Ragyou and Satsuki at least maintained some measure of composure, or at least simply got angry, even when things fell apart for them).
She was pretty much meant to be a character that you'd hate a lot, so you could enjoy watching the hero inevitably stomp her, and it shows in every aspect of her design.
Although the discussion is long since over, allow me to throw out my two cents.
Everything about Nui is just aggravating. From her very first appearance, everything about her just irked me:
- Her loli-goth (I know that's not the actual name for her design but you get my meaning) image doesn't fit in with the rest of the series, and just plain looks stupid on someone her apparent age.
- Her overly cutesy behavior was annoying. I hate characters that are trying too hard to act cutesy and girly.
- Her voice was grating to my ears (easily the second most obnoxious voice in the show after Nonon aka anime-Fran-Drescher). Her random French didn't help.
Those three traits are completely and utterly your personal preferences, and is, by no means something people, other than you should hate a character for. (Of course, if they share their opinion on these traits with you on the matter, it's a different story, but that's beside my point). Hell, those traits can make some people love a character.
- Her utter contempt for everyone and everything (whereas Satsuki at least acknowledges her foes even if she regards them as inferior) is annoying.
She doesn't show contempt towards anyone, really. She's just someone with an inferiority complex on a power-trip.
- Her interrupting the rematch between Ryuuko and Sanageyama (and in the most disrespectful manner possible) was annoying. When she taunted, "Become naked again, you hairless ape!", I wanted to rip her head off.
- Her whole fighting style is annoying (she either spams clones, overpowers everyone, or both, all while taunting away).
Again, she's on a power-trip, enjoying the sight of the normal people squirming.
- She consistently acted like she was invincible, only to freak out like a b*tch whenever something actually hurt her. I hate characters who act like big shots, but fall apart like cheap glass when the going gets tough (in both their defenses, Ragyou and Satsuki at least maintained some measure of composure, or at least simply got angry, even when things fell apart for them).
She was pretty much meant to be a character that you'd hate a lot, so you could enjoy watching the hero inevitably stomp her, and it shows in every aspect of her design.
So yeah, in the end, you've brought up, in my opinion, one point, that makes her a disagreeable character so far, whilst everything else is your dislike of her design.
So yeah... But I might be the minority here, not boarding the Nui hate-train...
Those three traits are completely and utterly your personal preferences, and is, by no means something people, other than you should hate a character for. (Of course, if they share their opinion on these traits with you on the matter, it's a different story, but that's beside my point). Hell, those traits can make some people love a character.
She doesn't show contempt towards anyone, really. She's just someone with an inferiority complex on a power-trip.
Again, she's on a power-trip, enjoying the sight of the normal people squirming.
So yeah, in the end, you've brought up, in my opinion, one point, that makes her a disagreeable character so far, whilst everything else is your dislike of her design.
So yeah... But I might be the minority here, not boarding the Nui hate-train...
Remember, the opposite of love isn't entirely hate, it's indifference. Love or hate Nui, she wins either way because according to her, hate = love. How do you win? Indifference. "Nothin' personal, mate!"