Supposedly, but her Mad Enchancement EX trigger which is Male Greek Mythological figure, makes her see everyone that met the requirement of said trigger as Achilles.
I can't help but thinking that Penthesilea is gonna be like Lancelot's AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARTHHHHHHHHHHURR case. At least the first alphabet is the same.
Also doesn't help that him and Achilles were close in someway that I don't care to look up.
You made them sound like they're gay, they're just rivals, and not the friendly kind.
If anything I'd think Hector should hate Achilles just as much, if not even more than Penthesilea does, considering Achilles at least learned to respect Penthesilea after her death but played Hector's corpse like a ragdoll.
Also for extra bit, in Shakespeare's play Troilus and Cressida, Hector somehow is the unbeatable one while Achilles is a wimp who needed to gang up on Hector to be able to kill him. Surprised this was never discussed between Achilles and Shakespeare in Apocrypha proper.
If anything I'd think Hector should hate Achilles just as much, if not even more than Penthesilea does, considering Achilles at least learned to respect Penthesilea after her death but played Hector's corpse like a ragdoll.
You're right, actually. If you have a Hector among your servants, Pen says something about how she regrets not arriving in time to save him and that she would have liked to help him in battle. Maybe she's reacting like this because it's not your Hector?
You're right, actually. If you have a Hector among your servants, Pen says something about how she regrets not arriving in time to save him and that she would have liked to help him in battle. Maybe she's reacting like this because it's not your Hector?
In the Iliad, Penthesilea died way before Hector though.
But yeah, considering the current state of the Fate franchise, it's not surprising how they'd prioritize fitting the characters' personality into anime archetypes over faithfulness to the source material.
azurelorochi said: But yeah, considering the current state of the Fate franchise, it's not surprising how they'd prioritize fitting the characters' personality into anime archetypes over faithfulness to the source material.
You say that as if such an thing was ever important to Fate. The series has done "this is what we read about" and "this is what was actually going on" more than enough.
The latest chapter has Hercules on steroid as your enemy. (Though he's named Megalos, and I never heard of that name before?) And in the story they both fight each other.
The latest chapter has Hercules on steroid as your enemy. (Though he's named Megalos, and I never heard of that name before?) And in the story they both fight each other.
A less known son of zeus and Sithnide nymphs, and it's Megaros.
You say that as if such an thing was ever important to Fate. The series has done "this is what we read about" and "this is what was actually going on" more than enough.
I know I'll get a lot of hate and sound like a massive elitist douche, but this is my take on it.
To me, at least, Fate was a good franchise because it forces its writers to research and put care and respect into building their characters instead of "let's make character based on a currently trending anime archetype!"
Being based in researches also mean you can look up these characters' origin on Wikipedia and learn more about them. It's like having a free-built in extended universe with added educational value. By learning more about these characters, your bonds with them could deepens, but with how little shits current Fate give to accuracies, it seems to be a middle finger to someone who actually came for the mythological/historical characters.
On the narrative side, Fate on the whole was a franchise built upon being subversive, Shirou was your typical shounen hero whose ideals are shown as being foolish instead of having Deus ex Machina solving all of his problems for him.
Saber was the middle finger to the typical "stay in the kitchen" heroine of early 2000s. Apart from that despite being an eroge heroine, she wasn't particularly sexually exaggerated and you had to work quite hard to get to her sex scene, that was a treatment that treats the audience's relationship to a character meaningfully. Current Fate is full of "I am a huge boobed genderswapped hero who will abandon my life goals right now if you promise to fuck me".
Yet on the other hand, the one thing current Fate carried over from old Fate is its convoluted mechanics which often sounds overcomplicated for overcomplicated sake. It's made worse by how irrelevant it is to the grand scheme of the plot.
"First and Second Magic" is thrown around a lot, yet was never explained and at the same time you never really needed to know or care what it is to "enjoy" either the anime or the game. Many NPs and rules like Gae Bolg or the "older = stronger" rules are littered in, only to never really have any meaningful effects on the story, and many other rules like "no literary characters can be summoned" or "Hassan only" is quickly abandoned as soon as it became inconvenient.
Then there's contrivances like "historically recorded as male but is actually female", which was overused and meant little more than "we need more boobs and asses in the roster".
It's like the franchise is trying far too hard to sound smart, when it's utterly failing at the actual smart thing it should've strived for(accuracy), while at the same time insulting audiences who actually wanted smart philosophies and depths by shoving boobs and butts into your face.
Current Fate has little to distinguish itself from the other million battle waifu simulator app games apart from that it spawned from an older franchise.
Worst of all, is how big Fate had became as a franchise. Now no one can even make another anime containing Gilgamesh or Cu Chulainn without being compared or worse, bashed as a ripoff of Fate. In essence, Fate ruins what is supposed to be public domain.
All I wanted from Fate was for it to be a faithful Smash Bros for mythical and historical characters. Is that so hard?
Hate on my comment if you want, but please give a justification for it, not just "I still like current Fate, you're being a big meanie, wah, wah, wah".
... It has never been a Smash Bros type of game, y'know? The core game was a Visual Novel, with who wins and looses set in stone every time you play. The closest it has ever gotten was Extella... which is more of a futuristic Dynasty Warriors in a cyberpunk setting than anything else. Can't expect it to be something it *never* was.
... It has never been a Smash Bros type of game, y'know? The core game was a Visual Novel, with who wins and looses set in stone every time you play. The closest it has ever gotten was Extella... which is more of a futuristic Dynasty Warriors in a cyberpunk setting than anything else. Can't expect it to be something it *never* was.
Smash Bros as in "battle royale massive crossover". And I'm referring to the plot, not the gameplay.
Fate was never subversive. Shirou barreled through everything in all the routes by acting like a retarded moralfag. All solutions fall into his lap. At best, it was acknowledged that it would normally be a bad idea, but he still came out on top. And Nasu was writing Saber as he would a man. Her romance was fucking cobbled together, you just read mangled writing as good because you have no eye for it.
You're the one trying too hard to sound smart. You obviously have no context to the story and are parroting shit you heard online (First Magic had a few throwaway lines, but the Second was well defined and the story is about the Third magic). You sperged out about lines that a third party half remembered and drew up a diatribe about mythology figures not being 100% accurate despite how dumb that would be.
What I said, was that old Fate had its problems, but current Fate got things far worse. I thought that came out clear and defined enough.
It was subversive in the fact that at least for early 2000s, his "moralfag" resolution did not come on a silver platter as it would otherwise Luffy or Naruto, with everyone cheering him all the way through. Yes in the end he managed to get things his way and many of his fights, particularly against Servants are contrived as all hell, but I said it didn't come easy because there were tons of bad endings you could get before you reach the good one.
And I never said Saber romance was good. If anything I thought you'd know from the context of my writings that to this day I would have rather preferred her not be genderswapped at all, so maybe "written like a man" was what I thought was the better thing done to her, instead of this current "I am that one Artoria Takeuchi drew for April Fools but now I'm canon" and whatever.
What I said was good about her was at least you need to work for it. Again, pointing to the fact that there are tons of bad endings that could go wrong. The romance itself in the end was dumb and cobbled, but again if THAT was bad, are the current Fate Servants all whoring for Master's dick right off the bat any better?
FSN, for what I believed, first became successful because despite being an eroge, it puts its plot before it sex. Admittedly, most of its sex scenes are even massively underwhelming, that's why it's the emphasis on plot that differentiates it from its contemporaries.
If I'm the one who's trying to sound smart, tell me why First, Second, Third magic, the tons of flavor text rules, overly convoluted NPs like Gae Bolg or UBW or the 50 versions of Excalibur was necessary in the story when none of them never intended to be anything beyond "a powerful stab" and "a powerful beam".
Point is, Nasuverse, old and new, clogs itself down with too many unneccessary details and expositions that never came to fruition. The premise's basic core was "KING ARTHUR AND HERCULES FIGHT EACH OTHER WITH LASERS", and that was all it needed. The point is it failed to even deliver on that premise because the heroes are no longer the characters from historical myths and history but cheap knockoff of overused anime archetypes with a random mythical name tacked onto it.
And of course 100% accuracy would be difficult, considering even many actual historians don't know 100% about these historical and mythical figures, not to mention all the different retellings. And yes, many times being accurate, such having everyone being ultra macho with full beard, would make the story less charming, but point is current Fate is not even 50%, heck, 30% accurate, and it's not because the research was difficult but rather for utter lack of trying.
It's one thing to be unable to come up with original ideas, it's another to root your entire series in the richness of history, and all you managed to derived from it was lolis in thongs. Mythology and history are already filled with characters that is unique to the anime conventions, that could give your audience fresh experiences, yet let's screw all that because we still need the uninspired archetypes other animes had already done to death, right?
At this point, why make your character mythical/historical figures? And again, how does this differentiate Fate from cheaper franchises that ripped it off like Kamihime and Eiyuu Senki? My point is, current Fate is like a bad fanfiction of old Fate, as flawed as old Fate already was.
Again, why don't YOU read my arguments clearly before being preemptively butthurt because our opinions differ? If my text was "tl;dr", why bother replying?
... Y'know, ya rant about all this, but I have just one question: Is it still fun? And for me, the answer is yes. I wouldn't be playing FGO otherwise. If your temper's boiling like Miss El Dorado here, ya probably shouldn't get too involved in it.
... Y'know, ya rant about all this, but I have just one question: Is it still fun? And for me, the answer is yes. I wouldn't be playing FGO otherwise. If your temper's boiling like Miss El Dorado here, ya probably shouldn't get too involved in it.
Not to sound mean spirited, but "is it acceptable? If yes, then shut up" means nothing can ever improve. Everything will just be that, "passable".
And I'm not angry, why are people saying I'm angry? I have an opinion and I back them up as rationally as I could. Is that not supposed to be how a debate works? Are my points not rational?
I tried FGO but never got into it. I have heard story in the later chapters are really good, so I won't refute that point, but I just hate Gacha systems in general so no, it's not "enjoyable" to me. The constant news and jokes about people having to whale for FGO to be able to enjoy it doesn't help.
And again, note to anyone who downvote me, as I said, give a reason, otherwise no matter how I look at it, you're the ones who's being unreasonable.
Are we seriously going through this same old argument again? By the same people, no less. We all can agree that Fate series has changed over the years, for the better or worse.
azurelorochi said:
And I'm not angry, why are people saying I'm angry? I have an opinion and I back them up as rationally as I could. Is that not supposed to be how a debate works? Are my points not rational?
Because you wrote essay to reply to simple comments. It could easily be interpreted as rage posting, regardless of of your rationality. And no, this is not a debate. Just some fans arguing over something they couldn't agree on the comment section.
Are we seriously going through this same old argument again? By the same people, no less. We all can agree that Fate series has changed over the years, for the better or worse.
I am back at that exactly because no one ever did try to actually refute it, convince me why I should swallow the state of current Fate.
I try to have a rational conversation, and all I get was downvotes from people who aren't going to even try to explain themselves, so what exactly was supposed to change my mind? Conformity? I'm not a sore loser, I can admit I am wrong when someone proved me wrong.
And back to my first argument, I can let go of the Fate franchise, problem is with how Fate is, I simply hate it that no one else can make a "historical/mythical Smash bros" to fill in that gap for me, to be the actual intellectual show I want without being beaten down for being a Fate ripoff.
Sigh. This is why i slightly hate posting comments in 'Fate (series)' pics. You can't post some comments in, whether funny or informative, without risking getting in to this kinda debate.
Technically Hercules possessed by him in the story or so I read, though I haven't gone that far into the story yet.
Turns out that wasn't the case. "Megalos" is just being used as a title. Megalos Heracles would be something like "Great Heracles", befitting how the Heracles rampaging in Agartha is gigantic, even in comparison to usual.
G
Gudao/Gudako, AKA RitsukaPardon!?
Your servant started attacking me all of a sudden!?
I'm your support, you know!?She's probably attacking you because she mistook you for Achilles, I bet.THIS IS A FINE TIME FOR IT!