A great mistake, England (because Scottland and Northern Ireland didn't vote for the Brexit but as a whole against it.) And hate campaigns against polish people are piling up.
A great mistake, England (because Scottland and Northern Ireland didn't vote for the Brexit but as a whole against it.) And hate campaigns against polish people are piling up.
Well, I'm happy that there will be a second vote then ^-^......
May I ask what english/scottish/welsh/northern irish users here are thinking of this?
Not a Brit, myself. But a British friend of mine only recently gained her citizenship in the UK from Japan. Last night she got a card slipped through her door saying "Now we voted out, you scum should fuck off out", followed hours later by a brick through her window. From her (now broken) window, there was also a Mosque that got firebombed and emergency service sirens have been going off all night. Britain's going insane right now in ways I didn't think possible for a modern country.
Not a Brit, myself. But a British friend of mine only recently gained her citizenship in the UK from Japan. Last night she got a card slipped through her door saying "Now we voted out, you scum should fuck off out", followed hours later by a brick through her window. From her (now broken) window, there was also a Mosque that got firebombed and emergency service sirens have been going off all night. Britain's going insane right now in ways I didn't think possible for a modern country.
And now scottish want to leave... OMG, in 24 hours the british have been able to destroy 3 different futures: the EU's one (I hope not, but now Le pen and the others could gain consence), their young people's one (many young people now speak about change their citizenship in Irish or scottish (if scotland will become independent), or in any case leave the UK to not lose their bonds with the rest of Europe) and their own kingdom's one. Maybe you should have thought a bit more before kneel to a fanatic that will take you all into the abyss...
This is just my opinion as an outsider and I won't say the most informed on their issues.
With Scotland it seems to me more an excuse to hold another independence referendum than anything else. If it wasn't this issue that landed in their lap, they'd have found another reason to justify holding another independence referendum.
As for the xenophobia, that's been a growing problem all over the EU, and I've read that people tend to turn to that and anti-immigration for reasons such as poor economic opportunities. It's easy to try and ignore them as crazies, but perhaps that's focusing too much on the symptom and not drawing out the underlying problems that is triggering it.
On the issue of young people, I think it'd be interesting to find out exactly how they perceived their future within the EU. If they expected that they'd leave their birth country to find work elsewhere that'd be kind of interesting then, because that'd be sort of hinting that job opportunities at home aren't very good as they are elsewhere.
On the issue of young people, I think it'd be interesting to find out exactly how they perceived their future within the EU. If they expected that they'd leave their birth country to find work elsewhere that'd be kind of interesting then, because that'd be sort of hinting that job opportunities at home aren't very good as they are elsewhere.
I don't know if you live inside the EU, but for this i can try to answer. Since 1990 EU tryed to create an even more greater european cohoperation, encouraging new generations to create an "european spirit" inside of them. For this, project like the ERASMUS has been created, in order to give to the students from any EU nation the opportunity to study, live and work in any other country of the Union using european funds. Plus this, with the green light to "Shengen's Law", all borders between the EU's countries are fallen, and now EU's citizens can travel inside the Union with only a simple identity card: no controls, no frontiers, no limits. All this in order to create an Europe even more similar to a unified nation. With an UK out from all this, the youn people now see themselves deprived of all these privileges: no more studies overseas, no more free travels, no more european funds in research and culture, no more everything.
This is just my opinion as an outsider and I won't say the most informed on their issues.
With Scotland it seems to me more an excuse to hold another independence referendum than anything else. If it wasn't this issue that landed in their lap, they'd have found another reason to justify holding another independence referendum.
As for the xenophobia, that's been a growing problem all over the EU, and I've read that people tend to turn to that and anti-immigration for reasons such as poor economic opportunities. It's easy to try and ignore them as crazies, but perhaps that's focusing too much on the symptom and not drawing out the underlying problems that is triggering it.
On the issue of young people, I think it'd be interesting to find out exactly how they perceived their future within the EU. If they expected that they'd leave their birth country to find work elsewhere that'd be kind of interesting then, because that'd be sort of hinting that job opportunities at home aren't very good as they are elsewhere.
For the last section of your post, CJ Spencer covered it pretty good.
But for Scottland. It may be an excuse. But considering that a huge point to stay in the UK was that the UK stays in the EU. Now this is reason falls apart if the UK actually leaves. But that will take some time. UK won't leave in the next months. And considering that there is a petition going on, that already has success, the parlament has to discuss this matter another time. So a second referendum about the UK actually leaving doesn't seem so far fetched and if it comes from a petition, the people don't want it. So to tackle Scottland (and also Northern Ireland) now comes far too early in my eyes, but their fate depends clearly on ehat the UK does.
About the Xenophobia...I don't think, I really don't think that economy is the strongest point here. It's more about cultural identity. And a lot of Germans (therefore the AfD is growing so much) have fear that "being german" isn't that much worth, when the government treats more the "refugees" than their people. That's also a big reason why the Brexit started growing so much: The people have fear that their identity won't exist anymore (that's also the reason why they don't want the EU ruling over them). To treat this issue at its core is something the EU can't really solve. Since there are so many cultures (Poland, Greece, Sweden, Spain -> all over Europe) that there is never an "easy solution". So drawing out that problem...is something that won't work. And I saythat as a friend of the EU, but that is the biggest flaw.
But for the Brexi per se: I doubt it will happen. 48 to 52, whole Scottland, Norther Ireland and the City of London (which wants now independency ^o^)...it may be a democratic decision, but it still torns the UK in two pieces which are nearly equal big. And I believe that there will be elections in October this year. I'm quite curious what the results will be...
I was personally more or less satisfied with the results of the referendum. As someone who is still looking for job opportunities, I would obviously prefer open borders and easier access to international job opportunities.The votes however basically fall on the lines of self interest, the older people would prefer a more secure welfare state with better control over internal affairs whilst the younger generation would like to travel more and would prefer to be able to work in more places.
Most people would think of self-interest as something that is usually negative. With the mentality I've read online however, with one side proclaiming that the other are a bunch of racist xenophobes and the other side saying that the EU wants to try to create the Forth Reich, I am at least happy that the majority of voters chose the vote that was best for them instead of picking the future of their nation based upon a transient and ultimately inane, cheap, and destructive desire to continue their ideological point scoring exercise against their political enemies.
Update from friend: Walking around town (She's in some rural area near London), she's been coming across Neo-Nazi Posters and stickers all over the place. Had another brick thrown through her window and had to help escort a Chinese mother and her two children to their home while racists with cricket bats chanted for them to get out and return to China.
@KowaiTeitoku And to think that no one had to engineer a retro-virus to get people started. This is almost exactly like the events leading up to that movie's setting.
With Scotland it seems to me more an excuse to hold another independence referendum than anything else. If it wasn't this issue that landed in their lap, they'd have found another reason to justify holding another independence referendum.
Considering in Scotland a significant majority voted against Brexit it isn't a mere plain excuse. It was England that sealed the deal with their vastly larger population. It's never easy for a minority when the majority steamrolls a decision for everybody using their larger numbers. Of course democracy's other name is a dictatorship of the majority, but it's precisely for that reason that Scotland can then decide to become their own majority by seceding from the United Kingdom. If England is planning to honour this democractic Brexit vote, how could they then ignore another democratic vote in Scotland?
Considering in Scotland a significant majority voted against Brexit it isn't a mere plain excuse. It was England that sealed the deal with their vastly larger population. It's never easy for a minority when the majority steamrolls a decision for everybody using their larger numbers. Of course democracy's other name is a dictatorship of the majority, but it's precisely for that reason that Scotland can then decide to become their own majority by seceding from the United Kingdom. If England is planning to honour this democractic Brexit vote, how could they then ignore another democratic vote in Scotland?
It's an excuse because the goal came first, succession from the UK, and the justification came second. The current majority party in Scotland was unhappy with the failed leave referendum in 2014 when 55% voted to remain a part of the UK (as they were pro-leave). They've been looking for any reason to justifying another referendum since.
If your actions would be the same regardless of the issue at hand, then the issue becomes an excuse to justify your actions. It's that simple.
I'm not going to say the reason is bad, but the fact still stands that any reason would have done for them because it works toward their goal. If it wasn't this, it'd have been something else to justify holding it.
Update from friend: Walking around town (She's in some rural area near London), she's been coming across Neo-Nazi Posters and stickers all over the place. Had another brick thrown through her window and had to help escort a Chinese mother and her two children to their home while racists with cricket bats chanted for them to get out and return to China.
@KowaiTeitoku And to think that no one had to engineer a retro-virus to get people started. This is almost exactly like the events leading up to that movie's setting.
Not just the UK, but the whole world is going crazy. I guess it's been on that course ever since 9.11. And things will only get even worse from here on. When humanity struggled out of the shadows of Fascism, Cold War was waiting for them. Then when we thought that was finally over, there was terrorism. In time, hatred and xenophobia won't just be prevalent; they will be justified. By democracy, no less.
There seems to be the "Islam menace" take where I live in the US. The Rotherham sex abuse scandal and Muslims immigrants supposedly instituting Sharia law in England is allegedly the result of the EU allowing them easy entry into the UK.
At least that what they seem to believe...and they think the UK did the right thing.
Not ever having lived in the UK, is that perception in anyway reality there?
Unfortunately it's the natural order of things. Many people, less resources so at some point there has to be a purge. Now it's a very strict limit of frontiers between countries, next it will be war or some other way to reduce population (biological warfare, sterilization, constitutional right changes, etc.).
There seems to be the "Islam menace" take where I live in the US. The Rotherham sex abuse scandal and Muslims immigrants supposedly instituting Sharia law in England is allegedly the result of the EU allowing them easy entry into the UK.
At least that what they seem to believe...and they think the UK did the right thing.
Not ever having lived in the UK, is that perception in anyway reality there?
The perception is whatever you want it to be.
Islam has been used as an excuse for so many things for so long that the average citizen can't tell the difference anymore. And... well... most people have simply given up on the topic. And I can't blame them for doing so.
One thing tho, and it's just my opinion as someone from SEA, having gone to some of European countries and Russia where some of them having this...Like, xenophobic factions of their citizens. Take UK, in this case, for an example. Most, if not all, immigrants with low-level academic skill are the ones that usually took the low income jobs. If those factions really succeed with their agenda, then who's gonna do the job those people left?
One thing tho, and it's just my opinion as someone from SEA, having gone to some of European countries and Russia where some of them having this...Like, xenophobic factions of their citizens. Take UK, in this case, for an example. Most, if not all, immigrants with low-level academic skill are the ones that usually took the low income jobs. If those factions really succeed with their agenda, then who's gonna do the job those people left?
Not gonna say anything for Europe, but in Russia the low-income jobs are generally taken not by "immigrants" per se - these are temporary migrant workers from Central Asia, usually unregistered and underpaid. If they left, companies employing them would be forced to raise the wage and hire locals, but pretty much everyone understands that would ultimately result in higher prices - that might be the reason I've never heard "they took our jobs" chant over here.
As for xenophobia, well, I don't think it's prominent anywhere outside Moscow. There are a couple regions of Russia that are predominantly Muslim - not only southern Chechnya and its neighbors, but also central Tatarstan and Bashkortostan for example, and people migrate within the country often, so it's all mixed by now and generally nobody gives a fuck about your religion or origins. Moscow is a special case since it's "the capital", a city deliberately made to be a single monetary and political pillar, so all kinds of people attempt to flow there in hopes of "hitting it big" - with over 10% of country population residing there, you can imagine the resulting crowd size, amount of competition and ensuing anger: you'll get cold shoulder not because of your religion, race or skin color, but simply because you're not native to the city. Equality! :3
There seems to be the "Islam menace" take where I live in the US. The Rotherham sex abuse scandal and Muslims immigrants supposedly instituting Sharia law in England is allegedly the result of the EU allowing them easy entry into the UK.
At least that what they seem to believe...and they think the UK did the right thing.
Not ever having lived in the UK, is that perception in anyway reality there?
In any case: That's only a smokescreen used here. Leaving the EU won't stop Refugees (most likely Muslims) to come or not to come to the UK. See France what they are doing in Calais or Norway which also has to deal with this. It won't change anything...really. But it sells well because of fear. And now they have the results like...broken windows, racism agains immigrants who lived there forever (Polish people for example).
Well that said: UK leaving won't change here anything in this matter. But I can be wrong what I doubt...
Within a day, the United Kingdom is facing a serious fracturing of its once glorious moments and stable economy. Anyone who believes this will aid us in reclaiming what is rightfully ours does not realise that we contributed to the EU the basic human rights convention. By leaving, we'd have to draw another one up.
The UK is facing the destruction of its 'United' state, and becoming less and less significant as a kingdom and more as individual cities. What people forget is, England is one of MANY UK territories. With the leaving of the EU being heavily unwanted in many other territories, it now faces the fact it must abandon these islands to the countries from which they used to belong (and in the case of the Falkland Islands, being handed over to Argentina, despite it never having owned the island itself for longer than a year, and only through piracy and war).
The three C's is how I like to see the UK: Conquest - Dead for over 100 years. Colonialism - Dead for around 60 years. Commerce - May have died on June 23rd 2016.
Kumihou said: The UK is facing the destruction of its 'United' state, and becoming less and less significant as a kingdom and more as individual cities. What people forget is, England is one of MANY UK territories. With the leaving of the EU being heavily unwanted in many other territories, it now faces the fact it must abandon these islands to the countries from which they used to belong (and in the case of the Falkland Islands, being handed over to Argentina, despite it never having owned the island itself for longer than a year, and only through piracy and war).
The argument is probably built on a "sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander" consideration. By a former component of the EU taking leave from the EU, what stops the components of the UK from taking leave of the UK in the same way?
A great mistake, England (because Scottland and Northern Ireland didn't vote for the Brexit but as a whole against it.) And hate campaigns against polish people are piling up.
In any case: That's only a smokescreen used here. Leaving the EU won't stop Refugees (most likely Muslims) to come or not to come to the UK. See France what they are doing in Calais or Norway which also has to deal with this. It won't change anything...really. But it sells well because of fear. And now they have the results like...broken windows, racism agains immigrants who lived there forever (Polish people for example).
Well that said: UK leaving won't change here anything in this matter. But I can be wrong what I doubt...
And would things be any different if Stay won the vote instead?
From what I've observed, humans just want an excuse--any excuse--to be hooligans.
The United Kingdom is divided by nearly half, it's seen a rush of MPs dropping out or changing hands and people voting to get into office with the new conditions. What you're seeing now is a contest of patience and inevitable dissolving of the country, whether or not it can keep the complete change of the country from happening is another tale to be told. People who say, 'nothing will change' do not see the change that has ALREADY occurred in the news. Whether Remain or Leave won, it brings upon change, but with a Leave vote, the change is more apparent, the EU wants us gone, the USA doesn't want to deal with us right now, investors are looking more precariously, racism is rising (and hopefully has peaked and will go down), money is being lost, the worth of the pound dropped, the PM resigned, Labour party is having an internal coup, the Remain voters and Leave voters are still pitted against each other.
'Nothing will change,' sorry, but things have already changed and it's not even a window's glance away for it to be apparent. Where we go from here, only the future can show us and it is wrapped in the unknown.
About the Xenophobia...I don't think, I really don't think that economy is the strongest point here. It's more about cultural identity. And a lot of Germans (therefore the AfD is growing so much) have fear that "being german" isn't that much worth, when the government treats more the "refugees" than their people. That's also a big reason why the Brexit started growing so much: The people have fear that their identity won't exist anymore (that's also the reason why they don't want the EU ruling over them). To treat this issue at its core is something the EU can't really solve. Since there are so many cultures (Poland, Greece, Sweden, Spain -> all over Europe) that there is never an "easy solution". So drawing out that problem...is something that won't work. And I saythat as a friend of the EU, but that is the biggest flaw.
@Provence Been meaning to get back on this. Economics is actually a major point in this, throughout all of the developed world. Globalization has supposedly been very good economically for the majority of people in the world, but statistically for developed nations it has only benefited the upper class and only stagnation particularly the lower classes. Foreigners is the easy scapegoat for their problems, as people can see them with jobs that used to be done by natives. Whether it's because they've come and gained the jobs or more likely because the jobs have moved to another country. People want to go back to the "good ol' days" that never really were when things start to look bad for themselves.
The refugee situation is really the straw on the camel's back on this, as seeing a flood of foreigners coming in and potentially staying greatly raises the awareness of the economic problems at hand for the lower class class and bringing up whose going to be getting jobs.
For conservatives in particularly they tend to strongly believe in the "just world phenomenon" and that people get what they deserve. This is particularly why they don't like to feel like propping up others, because "I worked hard for where I've gotten, they're just leeching off my hard work".