Exact criteria required for the loli tag to be applied?

I've been a bit curious as to what specificially is required for the loli tag to be applicable to an image. I had a bunch of images I uploaded recently tagged with it, and after getting into an argument over one of them and winning in the end, a friend pointed out the ruling that was presented to me applied to cases where the child tag would be applied, and this wasn't the case with my images. Therefore, I'd like to know what the criteria for the tag is as going by what was linked to me as a counterpoint, I could justifiably remove the tag from my other images as the character in question isn't a child, nor was she specifically portrayed as one in the images either. I won't go and undo the loli tag on the other 3 like I did last time out of snap judgement that the person tagging had no idea what he was doing after the image in question that sparked the debate over the loli tag received it without clarification on the matter from a mod first.

Also, just to prevent having to discuss how I could view the images after being tagged, I bypassed it because I view myself as being in the right to view the images that I upload, regardless of circumstance. Had I not been able to do this, then when the one image was falsely tagged, then it would have stayed that way and the majority of danbooru would have been unable to view a perfectly fine image. If there's a problem with that, then I'll get myself priveleged status but I was hoping to work myself towards contributor status. Debating this point however is something better spent in another topic though since it would only potentially derail the main intent of this one.

No hard and fast criteria except for the fact that they have flat chest.

- Not all flat chested girls are loli, keep that in mind when tagging pics and use discretion.

- If its loli but no sexual parts are shown (bare chests or genitals) and its safe for work, use the child tag.

I think a lot of the problem with this stems from people somehow never having seen a child or something (like the entire Australian government). Their body mass distribution and general shape differs from that of an adult. Everything needs to be judged on a case-by-case basis, of course, but it's not something people should have too much trouble with, I think.

Scalar said:
No hard and fast criteria except for the fact that they have flat chest.

- Not all flat chested girls are loli, keep that in mind when tagging pics and use discretion.

- If its loli but no sexual parts are shown (bare chests or genitals) and its safe for work, use the child tag.

A flat chest isn't much of a standard, though you hit on why anyways, and if they have to actually be classified as a child in order to be qualify for the loli tag, as I touched on, that would pretty much disqualify any, as an example, Touhou character except Akyu or cases where they're deliberately drawn to be children instead of just an artist's rendition of how they might appear.

Flat chest isn't a necessary criterion. There are some artists who give their clearly prepubescent girls large breasts. Maybe they live in denial or something, or they need the "but they're not loli, look at the boobs" excuse.

Basically, if the body looks like that of a prepubescent girl, it's loli. And if it's a boy, it's shota. (Assuming a non-"safe" context, otherwise tag it as child.)

For an example, see post #192199 or post #13198, the difference is not just in breast size. The relative size of head to body is also a clue. Though art style can make that difficult, especially chibi pics are often hard to tell if they're loli or not.

But there is no simple "is this loli" checklist, it all depends on the appearance and in borderline cases it's often subjective. I'd say just use your best judgement.

It may not be necessary, but I'll chime in with a reminder that meta-knowledge of a character has no bearing on whether or not the loli tag applies.
Common example: Etna. In game, she's given the age of ~1300 years, but her body is clearly not that of an adult's. Thus, unless the art depicts her with a more mature body than she has in canon, any depiction of Etna engaging in sexual activity would deserve the loli tag.

As for any standard criteria, it's really not as simple as that. I have to echo the "use common sense" comment, and add that, when in doubt, you should ask the forum.

Personally, I use an overall lack of traits of pubescence/post-pubescence as the determining factor.

piespy said:
Flat chest isn't a necessary criterion. There are some artists who give their clearly prepubescent girls large breasts. Maybe they live in denial or something, or they need the "but they're not loli, look at the boobs" excuse.

Basically, if the body looks like that of a prepubescent girl, it's loli. And if it's a boy, it's shota. (Assuming a non-"safe" context, otherwise tag it as child.)

For an example, see post #192199 or post #13198, the difference is not just in breast size. The relative size of head to body is also a clue. Though art style can make that difficult, especially chibi pics are often hard to tell if they're loli or not.

But there is no simple "is this loli" checklist, it all depends on the appearance and in borderline cases it's often subjective. I'd say just use your best judgement.

Breasts on a small body isn't loli, it's an abomination. The child tag is brought up again though. Everyone seems to keep defaulting to this, yet no one says anyhing about the cases when an image is safe, yet the child tag would not be applicable. Bringing back Touhou as an example since it was the first thing to come to mind; Suika, Koishi, and Satori. They're not children in the slightest yet they receive the loli tag frequently. Searching the child tag for them brings up hardly any images, and when they do, they're representations of the characters as if they are children instead of their regular appearance, aside from a few exceptions for Suika. This is the case where I'm most curious on. I can fully understand the ruling for why the loli tag exists the way it does when characters who are actually children, but not for what I'm presenting.

Things to look for to tag something loli:

• Generally small stature
• Thin arms and legs
• Underdeveloped body
• Flat chest or very small breasts
• Large head and eyes
• Little curvature in the hip/waist region

A loli does not need all these features to qualify, and likewise a character featuring some of these traits doesn't automatically make it a loli. So once again we fall back to the "use common sense" comment.

I should probably state that I'll never apply the tag myself to anything I upload out of principle even if it is something I'd classify as loli (barring the exception below), which given that I label a loli as a neotonous girl would be pretty much anything I upload, due to not enjoying being cut off from the images I upload thanks to the loli tag (though again that's a matter for a different thread) and that it prevents off the majority of users from enjoying quality images, but like I said earlier, I fully understand why the ruling is in place but I'd only accept its use when dealing with characters who are acutally children or portrayed as children because punishing characters for having bodies that are short and flat is ridiculous in my mind.

It's rather odd to have the conflicting thought processes existing in my head like that in regards to defining what is and isn't loli, but oh well.

Bastille said:
Bringing back Touhou as an example since it was the first thing to come to mind; Suika, Koishi, and Satori. They're not children in the slightest yet they receive the loli tag frequently.

The child tag's usefulness lies mainly in marking pictures without copyright tags that contain children and marking pictures with a child form of a usually adult character. Sure, pictures with Suika probably should be tagged child, but nobody's really too concerned about that, because tagging something loli hides it from Members, you already know what to expect if you search ibuki_suika. The loli tag, on the other hand, people are concerned about, since advertisers get upset if their ads show up next to loli art, and tagging with loli is the only way to prevent that.

So yeah, there are a whole lot of posts missing the child tag that probably should have it, so don't use it as the basis for deciding what loli is. Use common sense first, the criteria suggested in this thread if that fails, and if you're still not sure, tag it as loli just to be on the safe side.

Bastille said:
I should probably state that I'll never apply the tag myself to anything I upload out of principle even if it is something I'd classify as loli

That's not cool. What about people who are disgusted by loli and have it blacklisted? It's okay to ignore them for the sake of your little exercise in civil disobedience? You clearly have no problem circumventing the loli ban for Members yourself; just do that, if you must, and tag your images properly.

Bastille said:
...I fully understand why the ruling is in place but I'd only accept its use when dealing with characters who are acutally children or portrayed as children because punishing characters for having bodies that are short and flat is ridiculous in my mind.

It's not a "punishment," merely a descriptor, like tagging short_hair and the like.

glasnost said:
marking pictures with a child form of a usually adult character.

That's young. Don't worry I mix them up all the time too.

If you don't want to ask in comments (since I've heard that comments move too fast to be useful anymore), you can always ask in forum #33650.

glasnost said:
and marking pictures with a child form of a usually adult character.

young is supposed to be used for that, not child.

glasnost said:
That's not cool. What about people who are disgusted by loli and have it blacklisted? It's okay to ignore them for the sake of your little exercise in civil disobedience? You clearly have no problem circumventing the loli ban for Members yourself; just do that, if you must, and tag your images properly.

As stated earlier, my primary use of it is that if an image I upload gets tagged with loli, I'd be unable to do anything to it. post #608593 being the one brought up multiple times. Falsely tagged, and had I not done it, then it would have sat there like that. If a person has an issue with loli, they're generally going to have issue with the images that feature girls that were the image capable of being rated safe, would receive the child tag. I made mention of that as an exception to my initial statement so from my perception, I would be tagging my images properly. I moderate a lolicon forum so I'm well aware that there are people who cannot tolerate lolicon, however if a person has a problem with women who are mature, yet short and flat, then that's their own problem. As for civil disobedience, it's fun and all, but like I said, I'm a forum mod myself so I'm well aware of the implications of not following rules and I did state that I fully understood the rationale behind the rule. I just don't think that in its current state that it functions properly. It's hard to go too deeply into this because again discussing whether or not someone should be able to view their own images if tagged loli is best done in another topic.

Bastille said:
if a person has a problem with women who are mature, yet short and flat, then that's their own problem.

And that excuses failure to properly tag images, how? Misbehaving in order to make a point is the wrong way to go about things.

Try to understand that on Danbooru, descriptive tags apply based on visual traits, not character traits. "Tag what you see, not what you know."
Even if a character is decades, centuries, or millennia in age (chronologically or mentally), if an image depicts them as having a prepubescent body, it's loli enough to get the tag.

If you want to upload loli images and still be able to see and modify those posts, you should probably just pay the upgrade fee.

If somebody tags an image as loli, and you believe it to be in error, either contact a mod, or bring it up in forum #33650.

There's no way in hell post #608593 is loli.

Anyway, loli for me almost always means flat chest and lack of the well defined body curves indicative of sexual maturity. Most notably, the way the legs/hips/waist and arms are drawn tend to be what tip it in one direction or another for me.

Trying to be any more specific than that won't work. It's not something that can be so strictly defined given how widely varied depictions of the human body can be. There will always be some fretting over the issue but we can deal with that case-by-case.

It's generally worked so far and I have no interest in trying to set arbitrarily strict guidelines based on perceived height or specific body ratios or anything else. You can't really put numbers on this.

Bastille said:
I'm a forum mod myself so I'm well aware of the implications of not following rules and I did state that I fully understood the rationale behind the rule.

I'm not sure that you do. Your opinion seems to be that 'mature' characters with childlike bodies engaging in sex acts is an okay thing, and that people who have a problem with such a thing are being silly. That's a fine opinion to have, and I would tend to agree with it after a fashion, but the wiki for the loli tag says it is for "girls who are or appear to be preadolescent". If you're not tagging explicit images with girls that meet that criterion loli, you're not following the rules.

Now, I'm not a mod, so it's not my place to browbeat or threaten you, but the reason for this, as I've already said, is that advertisers don't like their ads showing up next to the type of image we tag with loli. If loli tagging were to get too lax, it would result in ads being pulled and ad revenue being lost. Additionally, what with the legal status of lolicon rapidly changing, this is a matter of the law for some users of Danbooru.

Bastille said:
Falsely tagged, and had I not done it, then it would have sat there like that.

Nah, I would have changed it back. Have some faith in the portion of the userbase above Member level; we're not all senseless prudes.

sgcdonmai said:
And that excuses failure to properly tag images, how? Misbehaving in order to make a point is the wrong way to go about things.

Try to understand that on Danbooru, descriptive tags apply based on visual traits, not character traits. "Tag what you see, not what you know."
Even if a character is decades, centuries, or millennia in age (chronologically or mentally), if an image depicts them as having a prepubescent body, it's loli enough to get the tag.

If you want to upload loli images and still be able to see and modify those posts, you should probably just pay the upgrade fee.

If somebody tags an image as loli, and you believe it to be in error, either contact a mod, or bring it up in forum #33650.

I view there being a difference between say... Satori and Koishi compared to Remilia and Flandre. Remi and Flandre are characteristically portrayed as having the body of children, since they are children. Satori and Koishi on the other hand are mature yet diminutive. They don't have a wholey prepubsecent body, but they maintain traits of being prepubsecent. The images I uploaded of Satori that received the loli tag, barring the one I dealt with myself, I could understand someone with a harsher view on loli making the call, but as everyone said, use your common sense, and to me, I didn't see the images as needing it.

As for seeing loli images you upload, I still think it should fall within their ability to see all of their uploads given the subjective nature of the tag. If one day, someone goes back and decides to tag an image I upload as loli and it's been a while, I'd prefer to make a judgement call on the spot whether or not I should pursue a mod response to it rather than needlessly waste a mods time in the event that it was an image that deserves the tag and no one put it up until now. Of course being able to easily determine that occuring would require the use of coloured borders based on the image's traits which would probably stay script only if such a system were implemented, though I suppose a search for your username and the loli tag would work just as well, but again, unless you can determine what the images that search brings up are, then you're just looking at a blank page which doesn't serve much purpose.

glasnost said:
I'm not sure that you do. Your opinion seems to be that 'mature' characters with childlike bodies engaging in sex acts is an okay thing, and that people who have a problem with such a thing are being silly. That's a fine opinion to have, and I would tend to agree with it after a fashion, but the wiki for the loli tag says it is for "girls who are or appear to be preadolescent". If you're not tagging explicit images with girls that meet that criterion loli, you're not following the rules.

Now, I'm not a mod, so it's not my place to browbeat or threaten you, but the reason for this, as I've already said, is that advertisers don't like their ads showing up next to the type of image we tag with loli. If loli tagging were to get too lax, it would result in ads being pulled and ad revenue being lost. Additionally, what with the legal status of lolicon rapidly changing, this is a matter of the law for some users of Danbooru.

Like I said, if the character is preadolescent/prepubescent/a child, I'd tag it loli when uploading it. I would more than likely avoid this however by not uploading them to begin with, though one can't really classify that as getting around the issue so much as not making the issue occur in the first place so it renders it a moot point for the most part. I can fully understand advertisers being cautious if their ads are next to characters that fall under the prior categories, but when they're simply neotonous, then they're no better than Australia pretty much, though one can't argue a freedom of expression violation since the ad companies are fully within their rights to do whatever they want with their ads, though you could always just counter with discrimination claims towards short and flat girls.

glasnost said:
Nah, I would have changed it back. Have some faith in the portion of the userbase above Member level; we're not all senseless prudes.

Good to know at least.

Bastille said: Remi and Flandre are characteristically portrayed as having the body of children, since they are children. Satori and Koishi on the other hand are mature yet diminutive.

As a rule, completely disregard every notion you have about "characteristically portrayed..." when tagging. Tag only what you see, with no regard whatsoever to what you know about the character outside of that image.

The only exception being tags that are explicitly meant to be "contrast" tags, i.e. young, adult, alternate_hairstyle, player_2 and similar. (Reading the wikis is especially important for these tags)