I'm against an implication, because it would be no different from an alias. If it's really borderline, then tag the post with both tags, but don't make an implication.
Posted under General
I just rethought about it, but I'm completely against using grey hair to equal old age. Old age should have its own tag, and using grey_hair with such a tag seems both redundant and wasteful. How many characters would honestly qualify for a old_age or senior tag? Out of that number how many would honestly have gray hair when you remove images that are not colored, have white hair, still have colored hair, etc? Not enough to warrant such a tag completely dedicated to it, that's for sure.
I'm for either aliasing it to silver_hair or finding a definition to coexist with silver_hair. Frankly I don't care if it's subjective, all the hair color and eye color tags have overlaps that make them subjective anyway, it's just the nature of the beast.
There's already an old_man and old_woman tag, and there should perhaps be an implication: old_man/old_woman -> old.
Your argument is off either way, though. Grey_hair is not meant as some kind of indicator tag for an old character. If there's an image of an old person with grey hair, tag it as such, rather than using "silver hair" which is obviously instinctively wrong. Same with young people and using "grey hair".
It's a case of the term "grey hair" being linguistically pre-defined as a certain thing (ie. hair that turned grey due to age).
There are however characters who are unquestionably young, who also unquestionably have grey, not silver, hair.
mayumi_thyme leaps to mind
スラッシュ said:
Your argument is off either way, though. Grey_hair is not meant as some kind of indicator tag for an old character. If there's an image of an old person with grey hair, tag it as such, rather than using "silver hair" which is obviously instinctively wrong. Same with young people and using "grey hair".It's a case of the term "grey hair" being linguistically pre-defined as a certain thing (ie. hair that turned grey due to age).
You're off yourself. You're using a definition bound by reality, we've got characters with practically any color of the rainbow at any age. I don't think we should use a definition bound by real world logic on a non-real world subjects. I mean we have redhead -> red_hair, which is truly red and not real world orange/brownish.
If we have a tag to tag old characters, there isn't a need for a gray hair tag bound by age due to the extremely low number of images that will be under that tag. We don't need to subdivide the old age images based on a unique hair color because of the always low population of the tag.
If we have a tag to tag old characters, there isn't a need for a gray hair tag bound by age due to the extremely low number of images that will be under that tag. We don't need to subdivide the old age images based on a unique hair color because of the always low population of the tag.
That still doesn't solve the original issue of what should be the factor distinguishing grey_hair from silver_hair ...
Old, were it used like young, should imply characters that are depicted older than they normally are (at least in extreme cases where adult isn't applicable) not old people in general
While I like how to the point gray hair indicating a hair color loss, the argument that anime features the entire rainbow in hair colors does pose a problem.
The only solution I've come up with is that silver would take the lighter shades, and gray the darker ones. Which would put post #454679 under silver hair and post #454504 under gray hair. This leaves an iffy spot in the center, but that could be solved by adding both tags to such images.
If there needs to be a special tag used for old folks hair, then might a graying_hair tag be suitable? I'd think it work out slightly better, as you could use graying to describe hair that is still nearly it's original color but has say streaks of gray in it.
Anyways I support what Suiseiseki says above.
Also as Suiseiseki says about old, that was why I was thinking we need a different tag for it. There are images of characters depicting them as very old, I recall one comic of Reimu and Marisa somewhere here that depicted them over the years going from present, adult, old, and then ghost.
I think part of it too is the luster rather than color and also as スラッシュ said, the pragmatic implications of the phrase "grey hair".
In my mind "grey hair" implies hair greyed from old age. In the aging process, this also implies a change in the luster and physical properties as well as the color.
Young hair tends to be shiny whereas old hair does not. Silver (in my mind at least) is a shiny grey. I don't tend to distinguish between silver and grey as colors as Suiseiseki seems to.
As far as I'm concerned when I'm tagging if it's young and less than 50% grey, it's black_hair, and if it's young and more than 50% grey it's silver_hair. If it's old, greyed, flat-lustered hair, then it's grey_hair.
So how would you tag the average mayumi_thyme image then? Since her hair is clearly not black or silver
I've never actually really run into that situation in the tagging I've done, as she sort of straddles 50% grey, but is young.
I'd probably tag post #305987 black_hair, and post #185613 silver_hair.
Almost all characters I've seen are easier to classify than her though.
Shinjidude said:
Young hair tends to be shiny whereas old hair does not. Silver (in my mind at least) is a shiny grey. I don't tend to distinguish between silver and grey as colors as Suiseiseki seems to.
I'm not really trying to distinguish colors as much as set down the least opinion based system I can think of. I agree that silver hair would typically be shiny, but that seems hard to determine in a picture.
Silver can be illustrated properly, such as in post #339489, but most of the time it isn't. Often it's really just grey or white representing silver (sometimes poorly).
The real difference is in how effective the artist is in making you believe that the colors are reflected from the character's environment. That's silver.
Good point about the old tag by the way, I didn't think that through.
On the subject of Mayumi Thyme, I can accept that it's an exception in that it's very clearly grey hair on a young person. But I don't think one or two exceptions invalidate the argument that grey hair is for old people generally speaking. This line of reasoning is really about making tags that are intuitive when searching as well as tagging, which will avoid people getting confused or misinterpreting the tag and getting it wrong.