Danbooru

Replacement tag for misused hands_in_sleeves

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ehh

The hands in sleeves tag had been used in posts with sleeves that were longer than the hands themselves and covered them entirely, most likely due to a mistaken wiki definition. No existing tag seems to cover that use case, so I've been thinking about creating one.

Initial name suggestion, consistent with sleeves_past_*: sleeves_past_fingers
It would most likely implicate sleeves past wrists.

I'll populate the new tag and remove the rest of misused hands in sleeves myself if the tag is deemed to be needed.

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user 441999

Eh? Up until 3 days ago the wiki had been edited by several people, often specifically mentioned long sleeves going past the wrist and never once mentioning opposite sleeves. And unless you count the fact that it was originally created for an image that has a character with hands in the opposite sleeves, there's no indication that this was mistagging...

But whatever, I guess it's probably better to have a separate tag for the two things.

very long sleeves is no good as it wouldn't include situations of detached sleeves that start well down the arms or times when the hands are in the sleeves solely because the outfit is being worn down or off shoulder.

sleeves past fingers seems okay, I guess. But I would also suggest hands in opposite sleeves rather than just hands in sleeves as otherwise you're just going to cause confusion.

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ehh

I find hands in opposite sleeves a bit long, but it's definitely much clearer, especially if someone doesn't know the wiki definition.

There's one more use case that's somewhat different from the majority of posts. It seems to be quite rare, or not usually tagged with hands in sleeves. There are at least three posts (post #1351297, post #2905778, post #2812598) in which the characters' hands are in another character's sleeves. At least one of them doesn't seem to be compliant with the current tag definition. I'm not sure if this should warrant a new tag, e.g. hands in another's sleeves.

Updated

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Lokispawn

Actually, were we to follow kuuderes shadow's suggestion and migrate the currently-defined hands in sleeves's 2000 posts into a more intuitive hands in opposite sleeves (with an /hios alias, I should hope, since the full string is a bit unwieldy), hands in sleeves would serve rather nicely for abigail williams-type characters who prefer their hands to be entirely covered by their sleeves, leaving sleeves past wrists to serve the remainder of the pixiv search term 'moe sleeves'. Call this option C. As noted, hands in sleeves as it is induces confusion; a redefine of sleeves past wrists which led to some recent pollution was guided by what would seem hands in sleeve's natural definition, and the similar sleeves together was also created seemingly as an attempt to convey much the same information as hands in sleeves, perhaps absent awareness of the tag. +1 to migrate.

Option B--to have sleeves past fingers assume some of sleeves past wrists workload and to leave hands in sleeves empty as ambiguous--is also fine; I just think sleeves past fingers is a bit awkward (though it does follow wrists, so there's that) and might still induce some to tag it under assumption that it applies when a sleeve is past the base of the fingers without yet reaching the tips. But then, a wiki add should fix that potential misinterpretation.

Option A being to leave well enough alone (and to possibly suffer future confusion).

Hands in another's sleeves, in the meanwhile, is unique enough to warrant it's own tag; surely there are other like images in the record. +1

Sleeve length I think is irrelevant to the issue, with its inclusion to the wikis only serving to offer potential search terms, and to suggest other items to tag. A small girl in an oversized shirt may be able to get away sleeves past wrist with without long sleeves (ala post #2355948).

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OOZ662

Just as some background, hands_in_sleeves was originally created to be used on images with characters resting/warming their hands in their wide sleeves as commonly done by Yakumo Ran and Moriya Suwako. At some point a few users discussing the tag misinterpreted a description of it as just meaning "hands encased in sleeves;" I reverted a majority of that a couple days ago.

Personally I don't see hands completely in sleeves being significantly different enough from a sleeve reaching halfway up the hand to require a unique tag. I was more of mind to just rename the hands_in_sleeves tag to something more descriptive of the pose and less easily confused with the former.

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evazion

create alias hands_in_sleeves -> hands_in_opposite_sleeves
mass update sleeves_together -> hands_in_opposite_sleeves

Link to request

Clarify the naming. I originally created this tag back in 2010, but I named it poorly and neglected to define it in the wiki. Consequently the tag became muddled over time.

I'm fine with creating sleeves past fingers for this. The name may be a bit awkward, but it's at least unlikely to be misunderstood. I think mass updating hands in sleeves -> hands in opposite sleeves then using hands in sleeves for this concept would be prone to confusion.

EDIT: This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.

EDIT: The bulk update request #1425 (forum #140715) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

Updated by DanbooruBot

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ehh

I suggested sleeves past fingers because I couldn't think of a better name, I know I'm bad at words.

Lokispawn said:

I just think sleeves past fingers is a bit awkward (though it does follow wrists, so there's that) and might still induce some to tag it under assumption that it applies when a sleeve is past the base of the fingers without yet reaching the tips.

Since my proposed name is potentially ambiguous, I'm fine with using a different one that doesn't have that problem. Sleeves past hands might suffer from the same issue, but I can go with it if anyone else doesn't suggest anything better.

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Lokispawn

evasion said:

I think mass updating hands in sleeves -> hands in opposite sleeves then using hands in sleeves for this concept would be prone to confusion.

On that point, were we to want sleeves past wrists' two concepts divided, it's probably best to avoid recycling hands in sleeves with an entirely new definition, given that not everyone will read this forum topic or keep on top of wiki changes--agreed. Pursuing this, sleeves past hands is alright; it skips over the potential ambiguity of where on the fingers the sleeves must be and remains in line with the sleeves past wrists continuity (sleeves past fingers is not really bad on that count, I only considered there might be a bit of noise introduced through misconception, less so if the wiki definition was tightened up).

Yet as to OOZ662's want for the tag, though in the previous redefine and in usage there does seem to be a want of some users to separate the two (those +1s here, and I was fine with a division when I'd thought there already was one), for what it's worth pixiv's 'moe sleeves' encompasses both concepts; the end result of having them separate is two Danbooru tags referencing the same pixiv search term. Is this something with much precedence?

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keonas

Hi there,

doesn't seem like this thread went anywhere.
A lot of tags have been changed back and forth between the 2 recently, not to mention the wiki definitions.
A lot of people, myself included are confused right now as to what to use for each of the 3 cases:

- sleeves past wrists
- sleeves past hands
- hands tucked in sleeves

If it was decided to change the 2nd one i'm not personally for it. People already got used to using the tag recently for Abigail and straight jackets and they will keep doing so until individually notified, so it'll be a hassle to clean up.

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