Danbooru

Tag Alias: pigtails → twintails

Posted under General

Reason: Since when are they not the same thing?

Someone just updated the wiki page for pigtails, and even had twintails under "See also" as if they were different things. I don't understand the logic and I think an alias is in order. If I'm missing something feel free to point it out.

Edit: Looks like it was even agreed on that they were the same thing in forum #1862.

Updated by Elfenus

It looks like they were trying to distinguish between small twintails and longer twintails, e.g. 9yo Nanoha vs Fate. But I agree they should just be under the same tag, as we seemed to conclude before.

I'll plan to alias, pending a couple replies.

I did that. In fact I was tagging both things as twintails, until I found the pigtails tag, and updated the wiki adding some examples.

You are right, both are basically the "same" thing: both are two ponytails, one on each side of the head. However the style is diferent, with pigtails having a more childish look.

Elrohier said:
Pigtails - Short (AKA a pig's tail is short.)
Twintails - Long

IMO they are two "diferent" things, but if you think they must be an alias for these, go ahead. Otherwise I suggest an implication.

Extra: please give me a hand to find all the twin_braids tagged as twintails.

jxh2154 said:
I'm not sure what you're asking for here. An implication or...?

I think he's just asking for help finding all of the twin_braids images that are mistagged as twintails.

In any case, I'm against using pigtails as the tag for short twintails. It's confusing since the words mean the same thing, and is bound to end up with things getting mistagged all over the place by new and/or dimwitted users. If we wanted to make a distinction, then we should use something like short_twintails, or just use twintails+short_hair.

Pigtails actually refer to braids, according to Wikipedia. They refer to the short-haired hairstyle you're describing as "bunches" or "angel wings" (and make note that both that and pigtails are called 'twintails' in Japan.)

7HS said: Pigtails actually refer to braids, according to Wikipedia. They refer to the short-haired hairstyle you're describing as "bunches" or "angel wings" (and make note that both that and pigtails are called 'twintails' in Japan.)

Right, this is why we don't differentiate. You'd instead need a short_twintails tag or something equally ridiculous. I don't really want to go down that road.

jxh2154 said:
Right, this is why we don't differentiate. You'd instead need a short_twintails tag or something equally ridiculous.

I'm not following you here. There's a big difference between the hairstyle in post #363324 and hatsune_miku's twintails. It's not ridiculous to have tags to describe that difference.

Tagging this hairstyle as twintails short_hair doesn't work either because there are lots of pictures featuring one character with long twintails alongside another character with short hair.

Shijidude said: I think he's saying people tag twin_braids as twintails...and he's manually fixing them.

Thanks. That's the main idea.

evazion said: Pigtails are short, twintails are long. The two styles look quite different...

That's how I see it. Sort of.

jxh2154 said: You'd instead need a short_twintails tag or something equally ridiculous. I don't really want to go down that road.

Then, why don't keep the pigtails tag just as it is and use it? instead to create a new tag.

Kayako said: ... or just use twintails +short_hair.

I don't think that would work.

7Hs said: ...according to wikipedia...

I think that sometimes we need to think under the terms: "for danbooru purposes"

Elfenus said:
Then, why don't keep the pigtails tag just as it is and use it? instead to create a new tag.

Because that's not the correct word for what you're going for. Even if we update the wiki to say that twintails applies to long versions of the style and pigtails applies to short ones, there's still going to be confusion because the two words mean the same thing in the English language and thus should be interchangeable.

If you want to distinguish short twintails from long ones, that's fine, but don't use pigtails. short_twintails might be a silly sounding tag, but it's meaning is obvious and it shouldn't take more than a glance to know exactly what the tag is for. Minimal to no confusion, minimal complaining. That's the way we like things.

And if it doesn't work out we can always try something else.

Twintails and pigtails generally mean the same thing in my mind and there's nothing implied in either of the words about the length of the hair. Reinventing the words "for Danbooru purposes" just makes things confusing in my opinion. I'm all for an alias. I only use "twintails" anyways.

EB said:
Twintails and pigtails generally mean the same thing in my mind and there's nothing implied in either of the words about the length of the hair.

I agree with this, except that to me a person can have any number of pigtails, but the term "twintails" implies two (or at least an even number of) tails symmetrically left-right.

paninaro said:
I agree with this, except that to me a person can have any number of pigtails, but the term "twintails" implies two (or at least an even number of) tails symmetrically left-right.

That's true. quad_tails is used for four. Are there any images with three? One is always either ponytail or side_ponytail, and note with those, there's no different tag for shorter variations, I think. If we were tagging them (I'm ambivalent on the idea), it would probably be best to have short_ponytail along with short_twintails for consistent and easy-to-understand terminology.

I'm pretty sure I coined both quad_tails and side_ponytail myself last year when I cleaned this sort of stuff up, so I wouldn't bank too much on them as precedent.

I don't like the idea of adding short_ponytail and short_twintails, because it's going to lead to a combinatorial explosion. You have the same sort of short / long hair problem with multiple characters and hair color. Are we going to end up with short_red_twintails?. Another issue is that each of these more specific tags is going to have fewer posts, and unless all possible tag combinations are added, will be harder to find for people more interested in the less specific features.

Shinjidude said: I don't like the idea of adding short_ponytail and short_twintails, because it's going to lead to a combinatorial explosion... Another issue is that each of these more specific tags is going to have fewer posts, and unless all possible tag combinations are added, will be harder to find for people more interested in the less specific features.

That doesn't sound like what you said in forum #13371:

Shinjidude said: I prefer to fully tag everything...since those pics may be of interest to someone searching one of the unessential tags, and without being tagged they won't show up.

short_twintails is an acceptable compromise for me, since there is disagreement over the definition of pigtails.

Shinjidude said:
I don't like the idea of adding short_ponytail and short_twintails, because it's going to lead to a combinatorial explosion. You have the same sort of short / long hair problem with multiple characters and hair color.

You have a point, but I think of short twintails more as a hairstyle in it's own right, and not just two independent characteristics that might happen to coincide, as red_hair and short_hair might. I don't think short_twintails is as excessive as short_red_hair would be.

Updated

Shinjidude said:
I'm pretty sure I coined both quad_tails and side_ponytail myself last year when I cleaned this sort of stuff up, so I wouldn't bank too much on them as precedent.

I'm pretty sure side_ponytail is used in Japanese (サイドポニーテール) and is not just something coined for Danbooru. I've seen it in the Japanese Wikipedia entry for Mahoraba for a long time now (since 2005, it seems) at least.

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