I made an appeal on post #2651416 a few days ago, but it was marked as resolved instantaneously, with no indication that any human had looked at it.
Is this intentional?
Posted under General
I made an appeal on post #2651416 a few days ago, but it was marked as resolved instantaneously, with no indication that any human had looked at it.
Is this intentional?
It's a bug in the post events listing. If you check /post_appeals?search[post_id]=2651416 you can see it's not really resolved.
...but actually, now that I look at this, appeals are pretty broken. Appeals aren't put back into the modqueue, so it doesn't make any difference whether one is resolved or not, approvers won't see it either way (unless they check /post_appeals, which I highly doubt anyone does on a consistent basis).
Then what is the point of appeals when the mod queue is broken and the appeals are even more broken?
I'd hate to see post #2558484 die to it.
Hmmm... if the appeal function (not topic #8554) was modified so that you could only appeal...
...then would it be useful to send those posts back to the queue...?
There's of course the concern of sockpuppets, but wouldn't the IP records be able to distinguish that...?
Mikaeri said:
You can't appeal your own uploads? What was the reasoning behind this?
No, you currently can... I was just laying out a hypothetical scenario.
The reason I proposed the above was because IMHO post appeals mean a lot more when they come from someone other than the uploader, since the uploader already has a vested interest in the post. That's one of the reasons I never appeal my own uploads.
Eh, I suppose... I rarely ever use the appeal function, but if I do it's to point out why I think it should stay, regardless of if I am the original uploader or not.
Of course, since I am an approver now, the only reasons I have to appeal other posts is if I think another approver should reconsider, but that's never happened. So it's basically limited to my uploads alone.
issue #2927 should address OP's original problem.
re: the modqueue, no, appeals aren't returned to the modqueue. I was partly wrong in that appeals are listed under /moderator/dashboard (still broken atm), but I don't think many approvers check that page often either.
The appeals system should probably be it's own topic, but since I brought it up, this is how I propose it should work:
If the appeals system can be made usable enough on its own, then the deletion appeals thread could finally be locked. It's never made any sense having two separate appeal systems.
I am actually in favor of a system that works like that, but I wonder what the flaws and implications of such a system would be. The deletion appeals thread barely gets any legwork from the rest of the janitors anyway, and this is actually a method that can be better utilized by the userbase to bring attention to posts that deserve a second look.
Wonder if the limit is too lenient though (in case it floods the queue).
evazion said:
The appeals system should probably be it's own topic, but since I brought it up, this is how I propose it should work:
- Appealed posts should be reset to status:pending and get another three days in the modqueue.
- Only deleted posts can be appealed, not flagged posts. Flagged posts are already in the modqueue, appealing them serves no purpose.
- The appeal limit should be raised from one per day to being governed by your upload limit. Appealing your own uploads counts as two slots against your upload limit. Appealing someone else's posts counts as one slot.
I agree with this except that appealed posts should only get like one or two days in the queue instead of three. Here's what I would add. To slow down the number of appeals per post so that they won't flood the queue, a post that was already appealed cannot be appealed again until a week after it leaves the queue and those with unlimited uploads cannot appeal their own posts.
Well, shit, right. Then how would one with unlimited uploads appeal their own posts? Can't they just have their own appeal limit like everyone else?
It'd basically make it unfair to have the permission even if you could just skip the queue. Like we aren't trusted to upload good content or try to defend what we think is acceptable. I find that a terrible idea. Just straight up selfish.
EDIT: typo
Updated
Here's my reasoning. By having the permission, we are trusted that we can supply the booru with quality posts. By being able to skip the queue and upload more than 50 posts per day, we already have a significant edge on those that are unable to. I was thinking that by being unable to appeal your own posts as a contributor, it would make things more fair.
I guess you have a point but contributors just can't have an unlimited number of posts to appeal per day.
Yeah, I see your point, but that neither helps contributors or approvers. We're not tasked with trying to keep the playing field fair. If one of us consistently uploads bad content, then that's up to other users to flag that content and subsequently consider getting them demoted. That isn't really pinned on an appeals system, unless you mean there's some user with unrestricted uploads that suddenly uploads a lot of absolute crap content and then repeatedly tries to appeal them (which I would find a huge violation).
See, if the goal of a new sort of appeals system was to basically circumvent the use of the deletion appeals thread, then it fails miraculously when such a restriction is placed on it. That's why I mentioned "Why not we just have our own appeal limit like everyone else", and keep it separate.
Well, for now I'd just assume it to be 50 (as per accounts older than 5 months), as if we had an upload limit. To me it sounds fair, but I can't really say for certain if we don't know what the rest of the numbers are from evazion. There should be a good balance between appeals being cheap to do versus appeals being too expensive. Contributors rarely have images deleted unless they push images through the queue frequently, so it could afford to be less, but then that incentives skipping the queue altogether for those users. Which, frankly, most do already, since we're the 'first' check of a post's quality as users with unrestricted permissions.
The primary issue with much of the above is that most contributors only send a small portion of their uploads through the queue as verified by my own report (topic #13112) and Danbooru's report (https://isshiki.donmai.us/user-reports/contributor_uploads/).
If all contributors start sending even just 50 posts a day to the queue, it'll overwhelm the queue and the approvers. That's why I initially proposed the one per day appeal.
evazion said:
Appeals aren't put back into the modqueue, so it doesn't make any difference whether one is resolved or not, approvers won't see it either way (unless they check /post_appeals, which I highly doubt anyone does on a consistent basis).
For what it's worth, I check the appeal page regularly (every two to three days) along with the deletion appeal thread a bit more scarcely. That said, I do agree the appeals should be revamped in some way.